They Didn't Like Each Other Much: Johnston and Pemberton after Vicksburg

7th Mississippi Infantry

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Location
Southwest Mississippi
They Didn't Like Each Other Much: Johnston and Pemberton at Vicksburg
By David M. Smith

September 19, 1996

© 2001 David M. Smith and the Cincinnati Civil War Round Table

The elderly man sat stiffly in the chair. Outside, chores remained to be done, but they could wait for the moment. The sun was still well up, and promised to provide sufficient daylight to continue on with his quest.

It was difficult not to react with anger. John C. Pemberton had spent four long years fighting against his family, and for a cause in which he and his country had lost everything. He had been disgraced and humbled. He spent the years after the war attempting to regain his honor and dignity -- both with his brothers, sisters, and family in Philadelphia, and the Southerners who blamed him for the loss of Vicksburg. All he wanted was for the record to be told fairly. And now, nearly ten years after Appomattox, General Johnston had reopened the old wound of Vicksburg.

Read the entire article at:
http://www.cincinnaticwrt.org/data/ccwrt_history/talks_text/smith_johnston_pemberton.html

 
They Didn't Like Each Other Much: Johnston and Pemberton at Vicksburg
By David M. Smith

September 19, 1996

© 2001 David M. Smith and the Cincinnati Civil War Round Table

The elderly man sat stiffly in the chair. Outside, chores remained to be done, but they could wait for the moment. The sun was still well up, and promised to provide sufficient daylight to continue on with his quest.

It was difficult not to react with anger. John C. Pemberton had spent four long years fighting against his family, and for a cause in which he and his country had lost everything. He had been disgraced and humbled. He spent the years after the war attempting to regain his honor and dignity -- both with his brothers, sisters, and family in Philadelphia, and the Southerners who blamed him for the loss of Vicksburg. All he wanted was for the record to be told fairly. And now, nearly ten years after Appomattox, General Johnston had reopened the old wound of Vicksburg.

Read the entire article at:
http://www.cincinnaticwrt.org/data/ccwrt_history/talks_text/smith_johnston_pemberton.html
This looks very interesting!
I'll read it later tonight when I have time to take it all in. Thanks for posting this!
 
Very interesting article. It makes me want to look into the reasons Davis gave Pemberton the command of the Army of Mississippi in the first place. Talk about someone who was out of his league. Pemberton was no match for Grant (nor was any other Confederate general, including Lee).
Here's an interesting "what if", what do you think might have been the result if the top command structure had been reversed and Johnston had been in command of the Army of Mississippi with Pemberton as the department head?
 
they definitely didn't play well in the sandbox together.

But was the result of Vicksburg inevitable? Maybe not on July 4th, but some time later. Grant had superior forces even with the inclusion of Johnston's army. It was Grant's MO to wear down his opponent, whether through battle or siege.
 
Very interesting article. It makes me want to look into the reasons Davis gave Pemberton the command of the Army of Mississippi in the first place. Talk about someone who was out of his league. Pemberton was no match for Grant (nor was any other Confederate general, including Lee).
Here's an interesting "what if", what do you think might have been the result if the top command structure had been reversed and Johnston had been in command of the Army of Mississippi with Pemberton as the department head?

Johnston would have retreated to the Pacific Ocean if he could get over the Rocky Mountains. I agree with you and the article regarding Pemberton but I also agree with the article regarding his summation of Johnston. Plenty of blame to go around for Johnston on the matter. Johnston's performance or lack there of was shameful IMO.
 
Very interesting points raised by this article! The theme of "plenty of blame to go around" does seem to be a common one...

Questions for the Vicksburg experts here:
The article (unless I'm misreading) implies that Johnston had "40,000" available. I remember reading that it was closer to 25,000 in his field army around Jackson in late June. Which, if either, is right?
Whatever the answer to this question, however, did Johnston make any attempts to harass the Federal lines if not disrupt them?
Once the siege lines were in place, how were the two commanders getting messages through?
 
Very interesting points raised by this article! The theme of "plenty of blame to go around" does seem to be a common one...

Questions for the Vicksburg experts here:
The article (unless I'm misreading) implies that Johnston had "40,000" available. I remember reading that it was closer to 25,000 in his field army around Jackson in late June. Which, if either, is right?
Whatever the answer to this question, however, did Johnston make any attempts to harass the Federal lines if not disrupt them?
Once the siege lines were in place, how were the two commanders getting messages through?

Pat,
I believe that Johnston had an total of about 31,000 troops around the Jackson area.

http://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/civil_war_series/24/sec1.htm
 
Thought the article made it clear that Pemberton was sending daily messages and not getting replies. And I thought one of them from Pemberton outlined a plan for Johnston to come by a certain road that Pemberton thought was best for Johnston to attack and for his units to counter from the other side.

That same set of events is outlined in Shaara's book Chain of Thunder. And I have read the same thing in other places. For all Pemberton's faults, Johnston was out to save only himself.
 
The thing in the article that really blew me away was the part about Johnston asking Pemberton what should he do to relieve the siege and how many men would it take. Johnston was the commander with freedom of movement and here he is asking Pemberton, bottled up in Vicksburg, what to do. Makes my opinion of Johnston as an army commander a bit thin.
 
The thing in the article that really blew me away was the part about Johnston asking Pemberton what should he do to relieve the siege and how many men would it take. Johnston was the commander with freedom of movement and here he is asking Pemberton, bottled up in Vicksburg, what to do. Makes my opinion of Johnston as an army commander a bit thin.

That was the big head-scratcher for me, too.
Is it true that Johnston had plans for an attack - on July 7? :unsure:
 
Pat,
That is an excellent question. I've never heard that Johnston had a plan to attack on the 7th.

http://thisweekinthecivilwar.com/?p=1600

About five or six paragraphs from the bottom. I remember coming across something like this one other place (which is going to bother me now until I find it :D). Of course this is a very general account, so it would be nice to have an operational order or something to back up the use of the word "plan" as Allie states. The tone of this account seems to imply that while Johnston did have supply difficulties he also pretty much decided the situation was "hopeless" as early as mid-June. Which begs the question: if he (benefit of the doubt) wasn't simply waiting for the loss of 30,000 irreplacable troops, what did he intend to do about it? Maybe even trying to strike a blow somewhere else?

[Not that I'll get to them anytime this year at this rate, but this relative newb welcomes all book recommendations.]
 
Not at all a weird way of thinking and I agree. It's one thing to say: "Oh, I always intended to do xyz..." and another to say: "These are the orders I gave to my corps commanders, dated..." That's why I was asking if anyone else had heard of it. It seems obvious that Pemberton would have held out a few more days if he knew Johnston was coming.
Like I said, I need to take a more detailed look at things, but Johnston seems to have been a real non-factor here. That... raises an eyebrow...
 
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