There Goes My Hero. Watch Him As He Goes.

Thank you Foo Fighters for titling my thread for me.

The recent debate over John Brown's moral fiber gave me an idea. Both civil war era sides have men and women who they consider their heroes. Why not debate them here? I could post a civil war figure to discuss for a day to a week or more and then close the discussion on him/her or like my video discussion chats we could just debate a bunch of them at once and over top of each other. Don't fear. If you haven't been in on a discussion, it actually works.

Why do you and/or others consider________a hero? Why not? You can take one side, the other or both. Evidence, sources, history and personal opinion work just fine.

But what I will say is that the debate will be civil. This is my thread on my forum and I'm a moderator. Debate and discuss respectfully and within the CWT rules and regulations or you're gone. Three strikes and you're out.

So, where goes your hero?
Oh Bart, you already know what I'm thinking. :smile:
 
I don't think Lee's decision was metaphysical or rocket science. One thing to consider was Lee's influence after the war kept a lid on any ideas of a renewal of rebellion. The South was wrecked, and stayed that way for a few generations. Like many former rebels, he found ways to serve his country and prove that he was once again a loyal citizen of the United States. Many former CSA soldiers joined the US army to fight Indians or the Spanish. Everywhere Lee went when he traveled he was met by throngs of his former soldiers, who had followed him everywhere and been through everything. If he showed his face, the old rebel yell rang out all over! Henry Wise, who was a pugnacious if not spectacular general during the war, was furious when his son announced he was applying for his citizenship to be restored. Wise was a die-hard Southern nationalist and would not knuckle under to Yankee rule. He raved and then snarled at his son, "Who was the dam! fool told you to apply?" "General Lee," replied his son. There was a long, stunned silence. "Well then," said his father quietly, "if General Lee says it is a good thing, then it must be. Go do it." This was the kind of influence Robert E Lee had. One might note that had his feelings been less than conciliatory, he could have snapped his fingers and had an army. Been there, done that, got stomped. Time to try to get back on our feet and heal the anger. After the war, Lee found himself head of a railroad line - his son Custis asked him why in the world was he head of a railroad when he knew nothing of them and, besides, the company didn't look financially stable to Custis nor their project do-able. His father sighed. "Yes," he said, "you are right. I suppose I have led enough lost causes!"

None of our nation's heroes have sprouted wings and a halo yet - they are all flawed. Our nation seems to agree that Lee should be among them. Congress passed a bill designating Arlington House as the Robert E Lee Memorial. A national memorial.
 
Eric Metaxas has recently written that our current culture is oriented toward anti-heroes. Modern historians tend to seek the negatives in a person's life; publishing something negative about anyone who used to be considered a hero produces a reaction like a koi pond at feeding time.

That is all just to say... I like the way you state your question, Mr. Moderator. It allows for the possibility of heroes.
 
Now I got it, Jerseybart! :thumbsup:

One of the many things I find incredible about Lincoln is the amount of...stuff...he could swallow to achieve what he wanted. People were so abusive to him, just on first sight - he didn't even have to open his mouth. Stanton: "Where did this long-armed creature come from?" The long-armed creature was standing in the doorway looking at him. McClellan: "Idiot, original gorilla." He's in the parlor? Meh... I'm going to bed! Abolitionist Elizabeth Cady Stanton said she'd leave for the "Fijee Islands" if Lincoln was elected and called him "Dishonest Abe" as she thought his administration was the rottenest ever seen. Charles Sumner: weak and timid, cowardly. In a day when way less would get you shot (or beat with a cane at least), Lincoln was amazingly tolerant. He was like the clown punching bag - no matter how many times it gets hit, or how hard, it comes back up! And in the end, almost all these people were singing his praises and working as hard as they could with him. It's amazing how masterfully he managed to turn real hatred into co-operation and respect.
 
Now I got it, Jerseybart! :thumbsup:

One of the many things I find incredible about Lincoln is the amount of...stuff...he could swallow to achieve what he wanted. People were so abusive to him, just on first sight - he didn't even have to open his mouth. Stanton: "Where did this long-armed creature come from?" The long-armed creature was standing in the doorway looking at him. McClellan: "Idiot, original gorilla." He's in the parlor? Meh... I'm going to bed! Abolitionist Elizabeth Cady Stanton said she'd leave for the "Fijee Islands" if Lincoln was elected and called him "Dishonest Abe" as she thought his administration was the rottenest ever seen. Charles Sumner: weak and timid, cowardly. In a day when way less would get you shot (or beat with a cane at least), Lincoln was amazingly tolerant. He was like the clown punching bag - no matter how many times it gets hit, or how hard, it comes back up! And in the end, almost all these people were singing his praises and working as hard as they could with him. It's amazing how masterfully he managed to turn real hatred into co-operation and respect.
Yes I agree, he knew he had to handle his enemies as well as his friends, he knew when to push for something and when to compromise. He was realistic rather than idealistic.
 
Robert E. Lee, the marble statue, not the human being, is currently being judged by the company he presently keeps, not by his personal character or history. His statue is regularly being seen and associated with neo-Confederate **** riffraff, so black leaders and liberal activists are hating on him because they hate his racist supporters who are well outside the mainstream of society. They’re not taking time to get to know Lee as a person.

To me, for lack of a better term, Lee is like a Southern Buddha. By that I mean he’s the guy who always seems to know the wisest, most profound thing to say, the best way to handle anything, in any difficult situation. Nearly everything he did is like a postgraduate level lesson on leadership. Nearly every quote from him seems like it should be a quote from a book. Well, it is from a book; a book about Robert E. Lee.

It’s such a shame he was on the wrong side of the war. Otherwise, I think he would be widely remembered as one of the greatest American thinkers and moral leaders of men, along with Ben Franklin, who proved that you don’t have to hold high elected office to earn great public respect. You just have to think and act on a higher level than almost everybody else.

His best qualities have nothing to do with the principal issues of the Civil War. It’s all about holding the ethical high ground in a deeply flawed world, and applying the Golden Rule in a complicated, increasingly modern world. You can hate the Confederacy and still learn something from him about dealing with people and adversity. You don’t have to agree with his decision to side with Virginia to learn from him and be inspired by him to be a better, wiser, more self-disciplined person. You don’t even need to go along with all his religious views. A person can be wrong about one thing, even something big, and still have a lot to offer the world.

Who would have guessed during the war that he would later become an innovator in the field of college education? No hard feelings expressed about the war, no bitterness, no clinging to the past. Then, as always, a role model.
 
Heroes are not perfect people.
The Civil War had to be fought. It is better that it was fought between organized armies, to the ultimate conclusion.
Lee's decision to join the Confederacy was erroneous.
When that conclusion came, Lee did the United States a huge service by surrendering before Grant had to allow Sheridan to execute the surrender by conquest.
Grant defeated all the Southern armies. But Lee recognized Grant's purpose, which was to end the war and start the journey to unity. Through his pain, Lee changed sides again, and became an American.
 
Remember we're still debating Lincoln until Saturday.

Next...James Longstreet. Hero, not and why. Have at it.

Confused!
It's still Friday in this part of the world ...
Is it Lincoln or Longstreet we are discussing now
smilie_sh_054.gif
?

Well, I will not say much about Lincoln - I just don't like the way he acted as President. Many say he was your greatest President, so there must be something extraordinary and outstanding about him, but as for me, I just don't see it. My unimportant personal opinion.

And as for Longstreet, I feel I have just spent my powder elsewhere ... yeah, he is my personal hero, but not because of his battlefield achievements, but because I can identify with him. He had his difficulties with loyalty towards his superiors, but as a good soldier managed to overcome them. He did what was required and arranged himself with it. He was courageous. He was calm in the face of danger. He was defeated, but stood up, dusted himself up and went back in the saddle. No whining. He did not let his personal disappointment and/or loss of physical abilities come in the way of doing what he saw as his duty. That alone is admirable to me.
Some will say that is not enough to be called a "hero". I had a discussion with @48th Miss. a while ago about the meaning of the word "hero" and I think he would contradict me here. But to me personally, everyone who leaves his comfort zone and goes out to do something that requires courage, stamina and initiative and serves a greater good is a hero, no matter what the outcome may be. So yes, to me Longstreet is a "hero".
 
Confused!
It's still Friday in this part of the world ...
Is it Lincoln or Longstreet we are discussing now
smilie_sh_054.gif
?

Well, I will not say much about Lincoln - I just don't like the way he acted as President. Many say he was your greatest President, so there must be something extraordinary and outstanding about him, but as for me, I just don't see it. My unimportant personal opinion.

And as for Longstreet, I feel I have just spent my powder elsewhere ... yeah, he is my personal hero, but not because of his battlefield achievements, but because I can identify with him. He had his difficulties with loyalty towards his superiors, but as a good soldier managed to overcome them. He did what was required and arranged himself with it. He was courageous. He was calm in the face of danger. He was defeated, but stood up, dusted himself up and went back in the saddle. No whining. He did not let his personal disappointment and/or loss of physical abilities come in the way of doing what he saw as his duty. That alone is admirable to me.
Some will say that is not enough to be called a "hero". I had a discussion with @48th Miss. a while ago about the meaning of the word "hero" and I think he would contradict me here. But to me personally, everyone who leaves his comfort zone and goes out to do something that requires courage, stamina and initiative and serves a greater good is a hero, no matter what the outcome may be. So yes, to me Longstreet is a "hero".
Very well said FF. The personal fortitude to stand for what you believe in your heart vs popular (peer pressure) opinion is admirable in anyone. Then to have time prove you right is extraordinary. :smile:
 
Hey Bart, just a suggestion, but perhaps to alert everyone when your designated "hero" has been changed you could alter the thread title. Adding something like: Now In The Box: Longstreet

Edit: Or maybe, Now On The Pedestal
Lol, now remember Hero was his horses name :smile:
 
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