The timid South?

unionblue

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it also taxed exports such as cotton
18thmississippi,

Sorry, but you are wrong.

The US Constitution at the time of the Civil War did not permit the tariff being laid on exports, only imports from outside the country.

I'll get back to you on the section of the Constitution that references this.

Found it.

US Constitution, Section 9:

"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."

Check it out for yourself and make sure it's how I quoted it above. That's the best way to verify. :smile:

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 

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jgoodguy

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My mistake, then.

So what do we think: was the Confederacy planning to potentially tax the export of Cotton, tobacco, rice, sugar cane to fund the dropping of a tax on imports?

Tim
I think my intent was to show 18thmississippi the irony that not only did the Union not tax the export of cotton, but the CSA did.
 
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DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES. Count them.
Major Fool,

Given the gravity of the constitutional crisis between November, 1860 and February 1861, when Congress was in session, the delegations of the seceeding states were still in Washington and President Buchanan was the lamest of ducks, a majority of both houses could have been convinced to call a Constitutional Convention to settle these outstanding issues. Before Sumter was fired upon, there were a great many northern political leaders who felt that prehaps the two sections of the country should go their separate ways. Doing it peacefully and amicably via political agreement would have been their choice as is was a great many southerners. Were there enough votes? Nobody will ever know because this traditional American way of changing our government was not tried.
 
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Major Fool,
Given the gravity of the constitutional crisis between November, 1860 and February 1861, when Congress was in session, the delegations of the seceeding states were still in Washington and President Buchanan was the lamest of ducks, a majority of both houses could have been convinced to call a Constitutional Convention to settle these outstanding issues. Before Sumter was fired upon, there were a great many northern political leaders who felt that prehaps the two sections of the country should go their separate ways. Doing it peacefully and amicably via political agreement would have been their choice as is was a great many southerners. Were there enough votes? Nobody will ever know because this traditional American way of changing our government was not tried.
Possibly, but, in fact, as noted by Lincoln in his First Inaugural Address, amicable and peaceable political agreement, needs both sides at the table and Davis's gov't had already made secession non-negotiable. i.e., the csa was not interested in negotiating, the one issue that could settle the crisis, secession.
 

jgoodguy

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Major Fool,

Given the gravity of the constitutional crisis between November, 1860 and February 1861, when Congress was in session, the delegations of the seceeding states were still in Washington and President Buchanan was the lamest of ducks, a majority of both houses could have been convinced to call a Constitutional Convention to settle these outstanding issues. Before Sumter was fired upon, there were a great many northern political leaders who felt that prehaps the two sections of the country should go their separate ways. Doing it peacefully and amicably via political agreement would have been their choice as is was a great many southerners. Were there enough votes? Nobody will ever know because this traditional American way of changing our government was not tried.
The 1860 secession does not make sense looked at from a political viewpoint. It is a bit iffy from a popular revolution viewpoint. However if one views it from the viewpoint of fanatic Southern nationalist minority inciting a revolution, the 1860 election of Abraham Lincoln was the one and possibly only time to strike and succeed. The timing was critical, they had prepared the way by aiding/inciting the destruction of the national Democratic party leaving the Southerners with little hope of influence in the political system. Panic/instability/fear was at the maximum and they struck at South Carolina the weak point and was able to cascade the revolt. Waiting for the political process is not in the cards, either before or after secession. This is why all what ifs involving a political process are futile. Political processes take time and the fanatic Southern nationalist minority does not have time.
 
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I have often thought, and occassionally stated that the Secession of the original seven Confederate States is the most adroit political move in recorded history. I can think of no other instance in which a large segment of a nation state, enjoying a booming economy and no repression whatsoever from the national government, succeeded in breaking away from it without bloodshed, or even much vocal dissent within the territory, or the nation as a whole from which it sought independence. The secession was an unqualified success! The problem was that the self-appointed leaders of the Confederacy simply could not believe they had pulled it off. Thus they had no particular plan for what to do next. It seems the only future they were comfortable with was a war to 'preserve their too easily attained independence.' At every meeting between Confederate representatives and Union officials, it was the Confederates who brought up the spector of bloodshed if the Confederacy was not granted its wishes, which in most instances was the deeds to the two off-shore fortresses, Sumter and Pickins. In the end, they thought their best move was to force war on the Union, thereby insuring that the independent nation they had successfully established was doomed.
 
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The secession was an unqualified success! The problem was that the self-appointed leaders of the Confederacy simply could not believe they had pulled it off. Thus they had no particular plan for what to do next. It seems the only future they were comfortable with was a war to 'preserve their too easily attained independence.' At every meeting between Confederate representatives and Union officials, it was the Confederates who brought up the spector of bloodshed if the Confederacy was not granted its wishes, which in most instances was the deeds to the two off-shore fortresses, Sumter and Pickins. In the end, they thought their best move was to force war on the Union, thereby insuring that the independent nation they had successfully established was doomed.
Except, in fact, the slave states never achieved independence and achieved unity only by their starting of a great Civil War.
In fact war was the chosen path of Davis and the csa for both independence and unity of the southern slave states, i.e., the leaders of the csa saw war as the best possible chance of achieving both goals; they were proven wrong in their view of the realities of the situation,only during and after the war.
 

jgoodguy

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favedave said:
The secession was an unqualified success! The problem was that the self-appointed leaders of the Confederacy simply could not believe they had pulled it off. Thus they had no particular plan for what to do next. It seems the only future they were comfortable with was a war to 'preserve their too easily attained independence.' At every meeting between Confederate representatives and Union officials, it was the Confederates who brought up the spector of bloodshed if the Confederacy was not granted its wishes, which in most instances was the deeds to the two off-shore fortresses, Sumter and Pickins. In the end, they thought their best move was to force war on the Union, thereby insuring that the independent nation they had successfully established was doomed.​
Except, in fact, the slave states never achieved independence and achieved unity only by their starting of a great Civil War.
In fact war was the chosen path of Davis and the csa for both independence and unity of the southern slave states, i.e., the leaders of the csa saw war as the best possible chance of achieving both goals; they were proven wrong in their view of the realities of the situation,only during and after the war.
They were proven wrong in their view of the realities of the situation only after when they were defeated, though I will accept July 22, 1864 as an alternate date.
 

ole

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I have often thought, and occassionally stated that the Secession of the original seven Confederate States is the most adroit political move in recorded history. I can think of no other instance in which a large segment of a nation state, enjoying a booming economy and no repression whatsoever from the national government, succeeded in breaking away from it without bloodshed, or even much vocal dissent within the territory, or the nation as a whole from which it sought independence. The secession was an unqualified success! The problem was that the self-appointed leaders of the Confederacy simply could not believe they had pulled it off. Thus they had no particular plan for what to do next. It seems the only future they were comfortable with was a war to 'preserve their too easily attained independence.' At every meeting between Confederate representatives and Union officials, it was the Confederates who brought up the spector of bloodshed if the Confederacy was not granted its wishes, which in most instances was the deeds to the two off-shore fortresses, Sumter and Pickins. In the end, they thought their best move was to force war on the Union, thereby insuring that the independent nation they had successfully established was doomed.
I share that thought or supposition.

The fire-eaters did indeed conduct a masterful campaign for secession. Unfortunately, they did not plan for what would happen if they did secede. They figured they'd get away with a country of their own, and then some dumba$$ opened up on the flag. A few knew it would be a mistake, but it was done anyway. Be it a sleeping giant or a hornet's nest, one ought to have learned not to kick it. But nooooo, it had to be kicked.
 

jgoodguy

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I share that thought or supposition.

The fire-eaters did indeed conduct a masterful campaign for secession. Unfortunately, they did not plan for what would happen if they did secede. They figured they'd get away with a country of their own, and then some dumba$$ opened up on the flag. A few knew it would be a mistake, but it was done anyway. Be it a sleeping giant or a hornet's nest, one ought to have learned not to kick it. But nooooo, it had to be kicked.
Exactly, but I think that part of their ideology was if you got rid of the pesky Yankees, the Southerners would naturally find the right way. The 1861 CSA national election had only one political party on it. The secessionists were shocked shocked to find that politics were alive and well in the seceded South.
 

ole

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Exactly, but I think that part of their ideology was if you got rid of the pesky Yankees, the Southerners would naturally find the right way. The 1861 CSA national election had only one political party on it. The secessionists were shocked shocked to find that politics were alive and well in the seceded South.
Them pesky state's rights.
 


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