Discussion The South's Defensive War

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lurid

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The South's offensive move at Gettysburg sure didn't work out to well
I agree, Gettysburg was the litmus test of the Confederate's offensive strategy, which purely indicated that their endeavor was best kept for defensive, then their inevitable demise would arrive.
How about the Confederate invasion of Kentucky that was finally stopped at the battle of Perryville. What about Sibley's invasion of the New Mexico Territory with plans to invade San Bernardino County in California.
Didn't Lee try to liberate Maryland from the fanatical Abolitionists? Wasn't there a minor dust up in a certain small town in Pennsylvania? Didn't the Confederacy mount three failed offensive's to liberate Missouri from the blue bellies ? Wouldn't that be Pea Ridge, Prairie Grove and Prices Invasion of September 1864?
It's not the Union Armies fault that the Confederate. Army can seize and hold Territory.
Leftyhunter
How many major battles did the Confederacy initiate on the offensive? there were 50 major battles in the Civil War, so we can come up with a percentage of how much time the Confederacy was in the offensive mode. What percentage warrants whether or not they fought a offensive or defensive war? I'm quite sure they were on the defensive 90% of the time. But I do agree, the Confederates could not seize and hold territory.
 

leftyhunter

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I agree, Gettysburg was the litmus test of the Confederate's offensive strategy, which purely indicated that their endeavor was best kept for defensive, then their inevitable demise would arrive.


How many major battles did the Confederacy initiate on the offensive? there were 50 major battles in the Civil War, so we can come up with a percentage of how much time the Confederacy was in the offensive mode. What percentage warrants whether or not they fought a offensive or defensive war? I'm quite sure they were on the defensive 90% of the time. But I do agree, the Confederates could not seize and hold territory.
The limited number of Confederate offensive battles is soley due to the inability of the Confederate Army to win on the offensive. Defensive War is simply a default that will eventually lead to defeat.
At least the Confederacy tried to fight on the offensive as late as September 1864 when Major General Sterling " Old Pap" Price tried to seize or at least cause a widespread rebellion in Missouri. It was just a day late and a dollar short for the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter
 

lurid

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The limited number of Confederate offensive battles is soley due to the inability of the Confederate Army to win on the offensive. Defensive War is simply a default that will eventually lead to defeat.
At least the Confederacy tried to fight on the offensive as late as September 1864 when Major General Sterling " Old Pap" Price tried to seize or at least cause a widespread rebellion in Missouri. It was just a day late and a dollar short for the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter
Imo, the Confederacy could not have stayed on the offensive for very long anyway. Lee lost 33% of his men in one battle(Gettysburg), so according to the math two more major battles in a major offensive would have wasted his entire army(99%). Regardless of the why and how, how many battles in the CW did the Confederacy fight an the offensive? Not many. The entire Confederates army could have been wasted within 6 months if they went on a total offensive.
 
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leftyhunter

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Brits dumped Negroes in Canada and other places which many of them starved. Many starved here. Like the Yankee, it was no Humanitarian excursion.
How many blacks starved to death in Canada? How was the mortality rate in Canada among free slaves different from those enslaved and brutalized in the American South?
Leftyhunter
 
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leftyhunter

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Imo, the Confederacy could not have stayed on the offensive for very long anyway. Lee lost 33% of his men in one battle(Gettysburg), so according to the math two more major battles in a major offensive would have wasted his entire army(99%). Regardless of the why and how, how many battles in the CW did the Confederacy fight an the offensive? Not many. The entire Confederates army could have been wasted within 6 months if they went on a total offensive.
At least the Confederacy tried it's hand at offensive warfare. True it didn't go well but the Confederacy gets an
A for effort.
Leftyhunter
 

lurid

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At least the Confederacy tried it's hand at offensive warfare. True it didn't go well but the Confederacy gets an
A for effort.
Leftyhunter
This is where I respectfully disagree an state you're grading on a huge curve. And maybe the biggest grading curve in the history of grading curves. I read thus far in these threads the Confederates went on the offensive four or five times out of 50 major battles, and that's like 8-10%. That's not remotely an (A) and exactly an (F).
 
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leftyhunter

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This is where I respectfully disagree an state you're grading on a huge curve. And maybe the biggest grading curve in the history of grading curves. I read thus far in these threads the Confederates went on the offensive four or five times out of 50 major battles, and that's like 8-10%. That's not remotely an (A) and exactly an (F).
Just merely pointing out the Confederacy learned the hard way that they were not adept at offensive warfare. Jefferson Davis et all being West Point graduates knew conventional warfare is always won on the offensive not the defensive.
The Confederacy would of mounted more offensive warfare if they were successful.
The Confederacy had minor success in offensive warfare by retaking the port of Galveston Texas. Of course this was offset by the loss of Vicksburg.
Leftyhunter
 

leftyhunter

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Lefty, you could go on and on with this. What next how many blacks died on Yankee trans-Atlantic slave ships?
I asked a fair question. The Yankee slave ship owners were selling slaves to Southern slave owners. Not seeing where the Southern slave owners get the humanitarian of the year award.
Leftyhunter
 
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OpnCoronet

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Imo, the Confederacy could not have stayed on the offensive for very long anyway. Lee lost 33% of his men in one battle(Gettysburg), so according to the math two more major battles in a major offensive would have wasted his entire army(99%). Regardless of the why and how, how many battles in the CW did the Confederacy fight an the offensive? Not many. The entire Confederates army could have been wasted within 6 months if they went on a total offensive.



A very vital point, IMO. I agree with those that argue that there was no real military answer to the economic, political and social weaknesses of the csa.

I tend to believe that the weaknesses of the South, were so deep and pervasive, there was no real military solution to achieving southern independence. Neither the offensive or defensive(or any likely combination of them) models would be sufficiient, in themselves to winning the kind of Revolutionary War they had engaged in.

As noted by you, Shiloh, Bragg's Ky invbasion or Lee's two iinvasions of the North, failed, not so much by military weakness as the inability of the confederacy to supply the necessary men and supplies to follow up on any successes. As many analysts then and now note, in the end, no territory lost by the confederacy was every permanently regained.

As noted by Lefty Hunter, et. al., the model available for fighting a revolutionary war from a position of material inderiority, was the Revolutionary one of the American colonistsin gaining their independence.. Almost as soon and real war broke out, the Founding Fathers sent their best and brightest to Europe. Congress sent Ben Franklin, John Adams, eta. al, to find and build alliances, political and commercial,. The South sent Mason and Slidell, et. al.
 

uaskme

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