The Shelton Laurel Massacre

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#81
Not seeing your point. One side punished their men one side did not.
Leftyhunter
Guess I should have been more clear. My point was, and is, that I think your statement was a deliberate attempt to start an argument based on opinions rather than facts. My response, 'Ain't even going down that road here' meant that I am not going to participate, (though I do disagree with your broad brush statement). This thread is not about the morality of Union vs. Confederate arimes - (which might be a good topic for another thread you could start). Let's talk about the Shelton Laurel Massacre here.
 

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CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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#88
@CSA Today and @Rebforever per your request here is a Southern newspaper that states that Southern women were beaten and whipped.
Leftyhunter
Do you have another source? Anything by the William Holden owned Raleigh Standard should be taken with a fistful of the salt the traitorous unionists illegally tried to seize in Madison County. This is the same William Holden who became the scalawag governor of North Carolina and who became the first governor in the country to be impeached and removed from office after the US president Grant would no longer support his misdeeds and malfeasance.
 
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#89
Do you have another source? Anything by the William Holden owned Raleigh Standard should be taken with a fistful of the salt the traitorous unionists illegally tried to seize in Madison County. This is the same William Holden who became the scalawag governor of North Carolina and who became the first governor in the country to be impeached and removed from office after the US president Grant would no longer support his misdeeds and malfeasance.
I have repeatedly posted other sources for you. Confederate's are traitors not Unionists.
Leftyhunter
 
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#91
Do you have another source? Anything by the William Holden owned Raleigh Standard should be taken with a fistful of the salt the traitorous unionists illegally tried to seize in Madison County. This is the same William Holden who became the scalawag governor of North Carolina and who became the first governor in the country to be impeached and removed from office after the US president Grant would no longer support his misdeeds and malfeasance.
Strictly dealing with the FACTS as we know them today, and not getting into various OPINIONS we have today: Women were whipped by Confederates in January 1863, in the Shelton Laurel area of Madison County, NC. Holden's paper alone would not be good enough evidence for me either (oops, that is an opinion- sorry), but we do have at least two other sources telling us women were whipped. One was Solicitor Augustus S. Merrimon, who Governor Vance had asked to investigate the event. Merrimon stated in his report to Vance on February 16, 1863, that "Several women were whipped. This I learn from one who got his information from some of the guilty parties." So Merrimon's report is 3rd hand information, not nearly as good as a reliable primary source. The best source actually comes from the man accused of ordering the massacre - Lt. Col. James Keith himself. On March 17, 1863, Keith wrote, "As to whipping the women referred to in Mr Merrimon letter, I can only say that I did order three women whipped. My reason for making such order was ascertain the whereabouts & recover if possible the many articles of property stolen in the raids above referred to, which they were concealing as I believed."
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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#93
Not even close to being true. The traitors were those who fought against the United States.
Leftyhunter
Lefty, this is getting a bit silly, Of course, the United States considered the Confederate traitors. The Confederates considered the Lincolnites traitors to the US Constitution and the unionists in their midst traitors. The British considered the rebel colonial secessionists traitors. Loyal colonists considered the rebel secessionists traitors while the rebel secessionists considered the loyalist as such. You could go on and on with the labeling. If I missed a group you consider relevant include them in other examples.
 
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#94
I've seen this event referred to in many threads, so I thought I'd start one on the subject itself. To make a long story short, this was an event where Confederates killed 13 males "suspected of Unionism" in Madison County, NC, in January 1863. Three of my direct ancestors were in the 64th North Carolina Infantry - the unit that reportedly did the killing - and I've been searching a long time now to see if they could have been involved with the killing. No evidence either way thus far. Paludan's Victims, a true story of the Civil War is the most quoted work on the event, which I'm sure many of you have read. I'm working on a manuscript that will expand on the story, using newly discovered papers of one of the officers on the scene. I think Paludan's book is good, but his sources seem to tell just one side of the story. There are usually two sides to every story, and the real truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Primary sources are key, but sometimes they are nowhere close to the truth. What are your thoughts on this incident?
@BenKalba ,
You should enjoy this thread as it most definitely involved the North Carolina Home Guards.
Leftyhunter
 
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#95
@BenKalba ,
You should enjoy this thread as it most definitely involved the North Carolina Home Guards.
Leftyhunter
Yes, the Home Guard (still locally called Militia in Jan. 1863) of Buncombe, Yancey, and Madison counties were called out and sent to Marshall. None of these Militia units were involved with the killing, but regular Confederate troops were.
 
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#96
Yes, the Home Guard (still locally called Militia in Jan. 1863) of Buncombe, Yancey, and Madison counties were called out and sent to Marshall. None of these Militia units were involved with the killing, but regular Confederate troops were.
Point well taken. Has a general rule in counterinsurgency local militia's definitely will act harshly towards anyone perceived as being a guerrilla or a guerrilla supporter I.e. when North Carolina Home Guards tortured women or threw a baby on the snow to force the mother to reveal the whereabouts of a deserter. Counterinsurgency requires a lot of manpower and all counterinsurgency wars involve local militia's. The ACW was certainly not an exception to that rule.
Leftyhunter
 
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#97
Point well taken. Has a general rule in counterinsurgency local militia's definitely will act harshly towards anyone perceived as being a guerrilla or a guerrilla supporter I.e. when North Carolina Home Guards tortured women or threw a baby on the snow to force the mother to reveal the whereabouts of a deserter. Counterinsurgency requires a lot of manpower and all counterinsurgency wars involve local militia's. The ACW was certainly not an exception to that rule.
Leftyhunter
And I agree with your point. BUT in the Shelton Laurel killing, so much has been written and passed on as fact - we don't know which story to believe. In the Shelton Laurel case, there is no evidence the Home Guards tortured women or threw a baby in the snow. We do know, however, regular confederate troops whipped some women.
 
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#98
And I agree with your point. BUT in the Shelton Laurel killing, so much has been written and passed on as fact - we don't know which story to believe. In the Shelton Laurel case, there is no evidence the Home Guards tortured women or threw a baby in the snow. We do know, however, regular confederate troops whipped some women.
I would have to go over some old threads .I seem to recall that North Carolina Home Guards committed some torturing.
Leftyhunter
 
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#99
And I agree with your point. BUT in the Shelton Laurel killing, so much has been written and passed on as fact - we don't know which story to believe. In the Shelton Laurel case, there is no evidence the Home Guards tortured women or threw a baby in the snow. We do know, however, regular confederate troops whipped some women.
also @BenKalba
We actually have a letter about the NC Militia torturing women "white Southern women protest Confederate abuse North Carolina" WordPress Renegade South. Especially see the third letter.
Leftyhunter
 



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