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The Secession of 1786-1788

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by jgoodguy, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. OpnCoronet

    OpnCoronet Major

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    I agree, when all is said and done, there was no real plan of how, exactly, the gov't formed was supposed, or would, operate . they had only a pious expectation(or hope?) that the government of, by and for, the people would work it out over time, and, in fact, it did...more or less.
     
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  3. trice

    trice Major

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    Then you already know Chief Justice Chase's opinion. There is no need to go to the effort of providing you with a reference to what you have already seen, so why ask for it?
     
  4. trice

    trice Major

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    Actually, the Constitution reference says it is the same United States.
     
  5. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Off the top of my head the differences between US founding fathers v Confederates.
    • Had inclusive representation every State except RI had representation. The Confederates did not.
    • The AOC had failed and there was an impending external crisis. The US had not failed, the crisis was manufactured by the Confederates and the Confederates resorted to armed force.
    • Had many concerns. The Confederates had few-slavery being the dominate one.
    • The Constitutional writing process started in March 1785 with the Mount Vernon Conference continued in September 1786 with the Annapolis Convention and ended in Philadelphia 30 months later. The Confederate writing process was from February 28, 1861, to March 11, 1861 less than a month.
    • The US ratification took place in peace time. The CSA in war time.
    • The US ratification took from Sept 1787 to May 1790 about 30 months, the CSA ratification 11 months.
    Feel free to add.
     
  6. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Unconventional Founding" by Bruce Ackerman P479-P480

    The United colonies operated for 6 and a half years without a formal organization. Then 4 years of struggle and compermise yet it lasted only 6 years.
    The ultimate in secession is when the secesionists take control of the whole government.
     
  7. wausaubob

    wausaubob First Sergeant

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    In the end it was decided that the people had created the United States, and the states had been their instruments for creating it. Once it had been created, by ratification and by living under the constitution and operating the government, the state became sub parts of the United States, very useful subparts in running most of the local government functions, but subparts.
    This is the way George Washington, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and John Marshall understood it.
    When the issue was raised, could a subpart object to the democratic process and the change in rights that might flow from that by leaving the United States, the people affirmed the view that they could not leave, with their money and the lives of the sons and townsmen.
     
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  8. wausaubob

    wausaubob First Sergeant

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    The issue had to be decided by the people. Justice Taney's legal formulas may have been absurd, but his conclusion that these issues had to be decided by the people and the Congress and an explicit constitutional amendment was correct.
    And electing the non-entity James Buchanan in 1856 set up the referendum on slavery. In 1860 Douglas and Lincoln, with two different limitation and express or implied abolition, got almost all the votes in the North.
     
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