The Search for Black Confederate Soldiers: Troops raised March & April 1865 Discussion thread.


Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
16,721
Location
los angeles ca
#2
So we evidence which was never disputed that very late in the ACW out of sheer desperation the Confederacy finally started to train and equip black troops. No evidence so far of them being actually used in combat. Other segregated militaries used segregated troops long before they were in utter desperation.
Leftyhunter
 

jgoodguy

.
-*- Mime -*-
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,548
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
#3
Greensboro, NC

Richmond Dispatch, November 22, 1902-
View attachment 292050


Camp of Instruction ("Camp Stokes"), Greensboro, NC
View attachment 292051


This article appeared in several newspapers. It refers to Gen Stoneman's raid in North Carolina.
There are two versions. One includes a source.

The May 2 edition of the Nashville Dispatch is not available online.

"three hundred"
View attachment 292052


"one hundred"
View attachment 292054
I'd love to see something other than newspapers.
 

jgoodguy

.
-*- Mime -*-
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,548
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
#4
Mobile, AL

"...during the final siege of Mobile, all male Creoles were ordered to report for local defense, along with other free blacks. The Native Guard, comprised of Creoles, actually served in the fortifications before the city, risking their lives in defense of the old order." -Urban Emancipation by Michael W. Fitzgerald, p.14

This report was dated Mobile, Ala., March 29, 1865.
It appeared in the April 11 edition of the Augusta Chronicle-
View attachment 292171
The CSA considered white appearing Creoles to be white. Everyone cool calm and collected ready to face seasoned troops sounds like an extreme literary license.
 

jgoodguy

.
-*- Mime -*-
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,548
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
#5
So we evidence which was never disputed that very late in the ACW out of sheer desperation the Confederacy finally started to train and equip black troops. No evidence so far of them being actually used in combat. Other segregated militaries used segregated troops long before they were in utter desperation.
Leftyhunter
The newspapers reported 10s of thousands of black troops would show up in VA, only about 80 did.
 

19thGeorgia

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
2,835
#6
I'd love to see something other than newspapers.
It would be nice. Maybe there are records out there yet to be discovered.

Muster rolls were made out every few months (Jan-Feb, Mar-Apr, May-Jun, etc) and at least one copy sent to the government (War Dept.) in Richmond. At the end of April 1865 there was no government.
 

jgoodguy

.
-*- Mime -*-
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,548
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
#7
It would be nice. Maybe there are records out there yet to be discovered.

Muster rolls were made out every few months (Jan-Feb, Mar-Apr, May-Jun, etc) and at least one copy sent to the government (War Dept.) in Richmond. At the end of April 1865 there was no government.
That is the problem, lots of records were burned or lost.
 

OpnCoronet

Lt. Colonel
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
10,359
#8
By waiting to the very last moment of survival, the gov't of the csa , saved itself from the ignominy of their freedom and independence, being dependent upon black troops being necessary to do what their white troops could not do themselves ... achieve southern independence.

Slavery could never, IMO, have survived such a spectacle and according to confederate dogma, if they had to free their slaves to achieve southern independence, why did they secede for independence in the first place?
 

jgoodguy

.
-*- Mime -*-
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,548
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
#9
By waiting to the very last moment of survival, the gov't of the csa , saved itself from the ignominy of their freedom and independence, being dependent upon black troops being necessary to do what their white troops could not do themselves ... achieve southern independence.

Slavery could never, IMO, have survived such a spectacle and according to confederate dogma, if they had to free their slaves to achieve southern independence, why did they secede for independence in the first place?
IMHO that is the source of the hesitation and the ultimate answer to the assertion that all the CSA wanted was freedom. It was freedom for a purpose and without the purpose, no desire for freedom by the political elites.
 

19thGeorgia

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
2,835
#10
CWT is used as a source. This thread could be misconstrued as evidence black troops were actually mustered instead of brought to camps as ' donated ' enslaved.
Where the heck do you get this? What does it even mean?

The instructions from the CS War Dept. say they were mustered as soon as enrolled-

VII. To facilitate the raising of volunteer companies, officers recruiting therefor are authorized to muster their men into service as soon as enrolled. As soon as enrolled and mustered, the men will be sent, with descriptive lists, to the depots of rendezvous, at which they will be instructed until assigned for service in the field. When the organization of any company remains incomplete at the expiration of the time specified for its organization, the companies or detachments already mustered into service will be assigned to other organizations at the discretion of the General-in-Chief.
 

jgoodguy

.
-*- Mime -*-
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
35,548
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
#11
Where the heck do you get this? What does it even mean?

The instructions from the CS War Dept. say they were mustered as soon as enrolled-

VII. To facilitate the raising of volunteer companies, officers recruiting therefor are authorized to muster their men into service as soon as enrolled. As soon as enrolled and mustered, the men will be sent, with descriptive lists, to the depots of rendezvous, at which they will be instructed until assigned for service in the field. When the organization of any company remains incomplete at the expiration of the time specified for its organization, the companies or detachments already mustered into service will be assigned to other organizations at the discretion of the General-in-Chief.
I would not worry about the question. I'd opine that there was not time enough for the procedure to be executed. The irony to me is that it seems to be accepted by most historians and lay historians like myself that 2 companies of about 80 men were mustered into service in Richmond 1865, but the only real evidence is one OR account and newspapers. No names except for a fellow that stole one companies uniforms and escaped on a police report. They are phantoms without names or form.
 

trice

Lt. Colonel
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
11,541
#12
It would be nice. Maybe there are records out there yet to be discovered.

Muster rolls were made out every few months (Jan-Feb, Mar-Apr, May-Jun, etc) and at least one copy sent to the government (War Dept.) in Richmond. At the end of April 1865 there was no government.
Naturally enough, record-keeping deteriorated as the war worsened for the Confederacy and communications were disrupted. In addition, many Confederate records were lost when Richmond was evacuated in 1865 (some intentionally destroyed, some not). The Union Army gathered up what they could and gave them into the hands of Francis Lieber for preservation (Lieber was thus one of the last known to have the infamous Dahlgren papers, whether they were real or forged -- pursuant to orders he received in November, he gave everything Dahlgren-related in the Confederate records he had to Stanton on 12/1/1865 and they disappeared from history).

All the orders to actually form units of "Black Confederates" were sent out by Robert E. Lee. Not many were sent. Richmond had been evacuated and the ANV had surrendered before they were received down in places like Alabama, Mississippi and Texas. The orders were sent to men who were supposed to organize a company or two, IIRR. I think I heard about one of those men who actually tried to raise a company (not counting the 2 companies up at Richmond) when he received the orders, but most Confederates knew it was over when they heard Lee had surrendered.
 
Joined
Jan 12, 2016
Messages
7,923
Location
South Carolina
#13
Either there were black Confederate combat troops or there was not. Other then possibly under 200 black Confederate troops at Paynsville per one letter in 1908 no evidence that there were black Confederate combat troops.
Leftyhunter
The Jackson Battalion on the front lines at Petersburg is a fact. They were certainly shot at while they were there. That does not prove they fired back (though it's very likely), but it's certain they were under fire, given the accounts of life on the front lines and the active sharpshooters. Their commanding officer reported that he took them there, and that they performed well, and both Union and Confederate knew they were present according to eyewitness reports and newspaper reports.
 

trice

Lt. Colonel
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
11,541
#14
The Jackson Battalion on the front lines at Petersburg is a fact. They were certainly shot at while they were there. That does not prove they fired back (though it's very likely), but it's certain they were under fire, given the accounts of life on the front lines and the active sharpshooters. Their commanding officer reported that he took them there, and that they performed well, and both Union and Confederate knew they were present according to eyewitness reports and newspaper reports.
From one of my old posts in the "Black Confederate Units" thread (https://civilwartalk.com/threads/black-confederate-units.83732/page-4):
=====
Virginia

Scott's Battalion Virginia Local Defense (March 7-April 3, 1865)

Chambliss' Battalion Virginia Local Defense (March-April 3, 1865)

Battalion of Colored Troops, Richmond, VA (March 15-April 1865)

Scott's Battalion was organized at Jackson Hospital, Richmond in March 1865 (also sometimes called the Jackson Battalion). Little is known about it. One of the three companies seems to have been composed of black men with white officers; the other two seem to have been hospital patients for the most part. The blacks came from the attendants/orderlies/workers at the hospital (supposedly, 60 of 72 black workers volunteered). By late March, most of the white former patients had been re-admitted to the hospital.

Part of the company of black men was transferred to Chambliss' Battalion (2 companies). This had been formed at Winder Hospital by Dr. Chambliss.

Meanwhile, Col. Pegram & Turner (Libby Prison) were recruiting the Battalion of Colored Troops mentioned above.

From the Richmond Sentinel, 3/18/1865, p. 1, c. 2
RECRUITS. - The two negroes sentenced to be hung for burglary, have been pardoned on condition that they will join the black brigade of Cols. Pegram and Turner.
=====

So what you have in these three units is the black men from Scott's Battalion (also called Jackson's Battalion) going to Dr. Chambliss Battalion, then moving over to Pegram & Turner's unit, which is the 2 companies of "Black Confederates" that end up retreating through Farmville after Five Forks.
 



Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top