The Russian Navy and Union Navy as Allies

ebg12

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U.S. Navy Secretary after the civil war said "Thank God for the Russian Navy!"

The Russian Navy sailed into New York to show support for The Union Navy during the Laird Rams Affair.

Also, when The Confederate Navy ship the Shenandoah threatened San Francisco California, it was the Russian Navy that defended the city against the Shenandoah.
 

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ebg12

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As I recall, the Russian naval presence in the US had more to do with getting parts of their fleet out of home port so they couldn't be blockaded as easily by the British if they intervened in the Polish uprising.
January uprising 1863
yes, I believe that's correct...both countries benefitted from being allies against the British
 

TnFed

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I think that Cassius Clay had a lot to do with the Russian fleet arriving in the country.
 

leftyhunter

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U.S. Navy Secretary after the civil war said "Thank God for the Russian Navy!"

The Russian Navy sailed into New York to show support for The Union Navy during the Laird Rams Affair.

Also, when The Confederate Navy ship the Shenandoah threatened San Francisco California, it was the Russian Navy that defended the city against the Shenandoah.
We have some previous threads on the Russian Navy sailing to New York, Norfolk and San Francisco. The consensus was that the Russian Navy had no intention of fighting the Confederacy rather has indicated they just didn't want to be blockaded by the Royal Navy in their Ports.
Leftyhunter
 

Dilandu

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As I recall, the Russian naval presence in the US had more to do with getting parts of their fleet out of home port so they couldn't be blockaded as easily by the British if they intervened in the Polish uprising.
Basically yes. The Crimean War experience bothered our navy a lot. The idea of pre-deployment was viewed as both political and military effective: it guaranteed that at least part of the fleet would be able to attack British communictions, and also demonstrated the political support to Union cause.
We have some previous threads on the Russian Navy sailing to New York, Norfolk and San Francisco. The consensus was that the Russian Navy had no intention of fighting the Confederacy rather has indicated they just didn't want to be blockaded by the Royal Navy in their Ports.
Not exactly right. While Russuan ships weren't intended to fight Confederacy, the instructions to the captains more or less viewed Confederacy ships as targets of opportunity. I.e. Russian ships weren't supposed to hunt Confederace raiders, but if, for example, some raider attempted to capture Union ship nearby or bombard a Union port, they were instructed to interfer, if possible.
 

TnFed

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Basically yes. The Crimean War experience bothered our navy a lot. The idea of pre-deployment was viewed as both political and military effective: it guaranteed that at least part of the fleet would be able to attack British communictions, and also demonstrated the political support to Union cause.


Not exactly right. While Russuan ships weren't intended to fight Confederacy, the instructions to the captains more or less viewed Confederacy ships as targets of opportunity. I.e. Russian ships weren't supposed to hunt Confederace raiders, but if, for example, some raider attempted to capture Union ship nearby or bombard a Union port, they were instructed to interfer, if possible.
People tend to forget that Czar Alexander made a lot of reforms in Russia and that relations between the United States and Russia were most cordial during the 19th crntury.
 

leftyhunter

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Basically yes. The Crimean War experience bothered our navy a lot. The idea of pre-deployment was viewed as both political and military effective: it guaranteed that at least part of the fleet would be able to attack British communictions, and also demonstrated the political support to Union cause.


Not exactly right. While Russuan ships weren't intended to fight Confederacy, the instructions to the captains more or less viewed Confederacy ships as targets of opportunity. I.e. Russian ships weren't supposed to hunt Confederace raiders, but if, for example, some raider attempted to capture Union ship nearby or bombard a Union port, they were instructed to interfer, if possible.
On the other hand the above order is rather vague. I know of no attempt by the Russian Navy to actively seek out Confederate Raiders. Unless a ship is actively hunting another ship it won't find it.
Leftyhunter
 

USS ALASKA

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Not exactly right. While Russuan ships weren't intended to fight Confederacy, the instructions to the captains more or less viewed Confederacy ships as targets of opportunity. I.e. Russian ships weren't supposed to hunt Confederace raiders, but if, for example, some raider attempted to capture Union ship nearby or bombard a Union port, they were instructed to interfer, if possible.
Basically, if "Shenandoah" attempted to attack San Francisco, the Russian ships would eagerly turn her into driftwood. But they wouldn't specifically search for her.
Sir, this is some great information - thank you! It does bring up an interesting question...

After the January Uprising began in 1863, the Russian Pacific squadron flagship Bogatyr, under Rear Admiral Andrey Alexandrovich Popov, made a visit to Melbourne. CSS Alabama was in the South Pacific in December 1863. CSS Shenandoah made port in Melbourne on January 25, 1865. If a Russian naval vessel had a chance encounter with a CSS raider outside of US waters or not in the immediate act of seizing a merchant vessel, would they have done anything? For all intents and purposes, the Russians could have viewed a CSN ship as a 'pirate' and a worthy target since the Russians did not recognize the Confederacy as a nation and therefore any armed ship of the Confederacy was engaged in 'illegal' activity.
109

Thanks for your time,
USS ALASKA
 

Dilandu

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If a Russian naval vessel had a chance encounter with a CSS raider outside of US waters or not in the immediate act of seizing a merchant vessel, would they have done anything? For all intents and purposes, the Russians could have viewed a CSN ship as a 'pirate' and a worthy target since the Russians did not recognize the Confederacy as a nation and therefore any armed ship of the Confederacy was engaged in 'illegal' activity.
Hard to say; it would probably required additional researches specifically on that subject. My IMHO - if Russian captain have clear advantage, and so would not endanger his ship's main mission (which was to serve as deterrent against Britain), he would took the opportunity to knock the raider out under the premise that it is suspected of illegal activity and did not operate under recognized flag. But it depend on situation, of course. And clearly, Russian warship would not attack Confederacy raider in Melbourne - because it would be too provocative act against Britain.
 

USS ALASKA

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And clearly, Russian warship would not attack Confederacy raider in Melbourne - because it would be too provocative act against Britain.
Absolutely sir - I would never suggest that.

Thanks,
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O' Be Joyful

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People tend to forget that Czar Alexander made a lot of reforms in Russia and that relations between the United States and Russia were most cordial during the 19th crntury.
I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor or degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy [sic].-- A. Lincoln:wink: Letter to Joshua Speed; 1855

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/speed.htm
 
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WJC

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Although the Russian visit certainly was interpreted as support for the United States during the rebellion, it was a totally self-serving act. At the time, Russia was fighting its own rebellion in Poland and both Britain and France were considering intervention.
The visit was likely:
1. To move the Russian fleet away from the Baltic and Black Seas so if a war broke out they would not be bottled up there and rendered ineffective;
2. To intimidate Britain, to show them the folly of becoming involved in another country's internal squabbles;
3. To demonstrate that the 'Great Game' could be 'played' worldwide.
 

USS ALASKA

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People tend to forget that Czar Alexander made a lot of reforms in Russia and that relations between the United States and Russia were most cordial during the 19th crntury.
Sirs, the U.S.-Russian Treaty of Navigation and Commerce, known as the Trade Treaty of 1832, was very close to what is now known as 'favored nation' status.
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Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 

TnFed

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Sirs, the U.S.-Russian Treaty of Navigation and Commerce, known as the Trade Treaty of 1832, was very close to what is now known as 'favored nation' status.
141

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
If memory serves me, Samuel Colt furnished the Russians with arms during the Crimean War. Something his British customers did not like.
 


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