The "Rebellion" which fell upon the country as a full scale Civil War... How extensive was it???

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#1
Regardless of how you personally define the American Civil War as being; be it rebellion, revolt, revolution, invasion or the act of preserving the union, it became a full scale Civil War which fell upon our country, that resulted in 620,000 "American" lives being taken, over the course of 4 years, as a direct consequence of that war. Which is an astounding number taking into consideration that 644,000 Americans were killed in all other conflicts in which our Nation has fought wars. Roughly 1,264,000 American soldiers have died in the nation's wars since we have become a nation, with the American Civil War alone representing nearly half of that number regarding Americans killed in war, and on our own soil no less.

Few who research the American Civil War really profoundly understand the depth of the opposition which turned a rebellion into full scale Civil War and from whence that opposition came. The ACW truly divided us as a nation, in more ways than most understand. After committing myself to hundred`s of hours of research regarding this topic of conversation, I was surprised at my findings. Allow me to share some of those with you.

When I state that the American Civil War divided us as a nation, to bear this out you need only look at the plethora of current and former U.S. government officials, spanning several administrations, as well as Officers in the U.S. Army, who resigned their positions in our government at the time of the war and joined the Confederate States of America or those who had long been out of their positions of power with-in our government who went on to either join the Confederate States Army, became Confederate Senators and Representatives or gave their allegiance and support to the Confederate States of America. This to include numerous U.S. Army and Cavalry Officers, a former U.S. President and Vice-President, several former U.S. Secretaries of War, Secretaries of State, Secretaries of the Treasury, Secretaries of the Interior, Secretaries of the Navy, numerous U.S. Senators and Members of the U.S. House of Representatives, to include former Speakers of the House.

The 1860 Presidential Campaign was a highly contested quadrennial election held between 4 principal candidates: Abraham Lincoln, John C. Breckinridge (sitting vice-president at the time), John Bell & Stephen A. Douglas. On November 6, 1860, Abraham Lincoln won and was elected as the 16th President of the United States of America with Hannibal Hamlin elected as his Vice-President. Half of the 4 candidates who lost in this General election to Lincoln, joined the Confederate States of America, those being Breckinridge and Bell.

Right after the Inauguration of President Abraham Lincoln, Vice-President John C. Breckinridge won a seat in the Senate and served in that capacity for about 6 mos. at which time he joined the Confederate cause and entered service in the Confederate States Army as a Brigadier General, his first action was leading his men into Battle at Shiloh, Tennessee. By April 1862 he was promoted to the rank of Maj. General as he was fighting in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and by January 1865 he was appointed the fifth and last Confederate Secretary of War and was Captured with Confedrate President Jefferson Davis just four months later, on May 10, 1865 at Irwinville, Georgia which brought the Civil War to an end.

John Bell, threw his support behind the Confederacy after the fall of Fort Sumpter. He was formerly the Speaker of the House for the 23rd Congress (1834–1835), and briefly served as Secretary of War during the administration of William Henry Harrison (1841). Although a slaveowner, Bell was one of the few southern politicians to oppose the expansion of slavery in the 1850s, and campaigned vigorously against secession in the years leading up to the American Civil War. During his 1860 presidential campaign, he argued that secession was unnecessary since the Constitution protected slavery, an argument which resonated with voters in border states, helping him capture the electoral votes of Tennessee, Kentucky, and Virginia. After the Battle of Fort Sumter in April 1861, Bell abandoned the Union cause and supported the Confederacy. On April 23, 1861 he called for the state of Tennessee to align itself with the Confederacy and prepare a defense against a federal invasion. Bell's defection to the Confederate cause stunned Unionist leaders. Louisville Journal editor George D. Prentice wrote that Bell's decision brought "unspeakable mortification, and disgust, and indignation" to his long-time supporters. Horace Greeley lamented such an "ignominious close" to Bell's public career. Knoxville Whig editor (and future Tennessee governor) William Brownlow derided Bell as the "officiating Priest" at the altar of the "false god of Disunion."

The 10th President of the United States of America, John Tyler, joined the Confederacy and was elected to the Confederate Congress when the war first broke upon the country. What was really surprising to me was that half of President James Buchanan`s Administration resigned and joined the Confederate States of America, who were in charge of the governmet up until 4 Mar 1861 when Abraham Lincoln was sworn in as the 16th President of the United States of America.

In every presidential administration you had the President, Vice-President, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of War, Attorney General, Postmaster General, Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of the Interior. Half of Buchanan`s Administration (4 of 8), to include 3 of his 7 Cabinet Members (Howell, Floyd and Thompson), resigned and joined the Confederate Cause.

The 22nd U. S. Secretary of Treasury, Howell Cobb, under President Buchanan, also former Speaker of the U. S. House of Representatives (1849 - 1851), later served in the Confederacy as a General and lead troops into battle to fight for the Confederate cause. Cobb is, however, probably best known as one of the founders of the Confederacy, having served as the President of the Provisional Congress of the Confederate States. Cobb served as the Confederate Provisional Head of State for two weeks between the foundation of the Confederacy and the election of Jefferson Davis as its first President (4 Feb 1861 - 18 Feb 1861). As the Speaker of the Congress, he was provisional Head of State at this time.

The 24th Secretary of War under Buchanan, John Floyd became a Brig. General in the Confederate Army and fought under Robert E. Lee in Virginia.

Buchanan`s Secretary of the Interior, Jacob Thompson became the Inspector General of the Confederate States Army and was the leader of the Confederate Secret Service. Making a total of 4 of his administration, to include Breckinridge, to join and fight for the southern cause. These Gentlemen were the U. S. Government up until the day that Lincoln was sworn in. As a matter of fact nearly all of Buchanan`s Cabinet resigned after South Carolina seceded, save for Breckinridge who remained with him until the end of his term a few months later when Lincoln was sworn in.

Regarding other previous Presidential Administrations; Charles Magill Conrad served in the Confederate Congress. He was acting U.S. Secretary of State in 1852 and the 22nd Secretary of War under President Millard Fillmore and, briefly, Franklin Pierce, from 1850 until 1853. It was he that Jefferson Davis succeeded as the 23rd U.S. Secretary of War in President Franklin Pierces Administration.

In 1861, the 21st Secretary of War under President`s Zachary Taylor and Millard Fillmore (1849 - 1850), George Walker Crawford, was elected a delegate from Richmond County to the state's Secession Convention which brought him out of retirement to answer the call of his constituents. By the convention's first order of business, Crawford was elected Permanent President of the Convention by which he presided over Georgia's decision to secede from the Union. Crawford was to be tried for inciting a rebellion due to his role in presiding over the state's secession and was excluded from eligibility for both Lincoln's and Johnson's amnesty proclamations because of his leadership status.

President`s Zachary Taylor and Millard Fillmore`s 19th U.S. Secretary of the Navy (1849 - 1850), William Ballard Preston was an American politician who served as a Confederate States Senator from Virginia from February 18, 1862, until his death in November 1862.

President Millard Fillmore`s 20th U.S. Secretary of the Navy (1850 - 1852), William Alexander Graham, a former U. S. Senator (1840 - 1843) who later became a Senator in the Confederate States Senate (North Carolina) from 1864 to 1865 threw his full allegiance and support behind the Confederate States of America.

Regarding U.S. Army and Cavalry Officers who resigned their commissions and joined the Confederate Army were: Albert Sidney Johnston, Robert E. Lee, William J. Hardee, Earl Van Dorn, Edmund Kirby Smith, P.G.T. Beauregard, Fitzhugh Lee, Joseph E. Johnston, J.E.B. Stuart, John Bell Hood, Joseph Wheeler, Samuel Wragg Ferguson, William Hicks Jackson, Charles Field and others scarcely less famous. 29 officers alone from the 1st and 2nd U.S. Cavalry (Formed by the 23rd U.S. Secretary of War Jefferson Davis in 1855) would become Confederate Generals in the Civil War. So many Officers resigned and joined the Confederate cause that they had to be replaced with very green unexperienced officers to take their place. Which regarding the Cavalry this gave the Confederate States Army a sound advantage up until around 1863.

The reason that I post this is to illuminate the conversation, as many think that the Civil War was just an "uprising" or simply a "rebellion" when in fact it was so much more, it was by all accounts a full scale Civil War. And when you see the likes of the very prominent men who joined the Confederate Cause as former leaders who served in our U.S. Government and Military spanning numerous administrations that becomes evident. Passions were heated and men were willing on both sides to fight, and die if necessary, for a cause that they believed in, to defend their narrative regarding the war. It was a dark time in our history, one which I truly hope that we will never have to repeat again, at least in my lifetime.

Again this post is not intended to digress into the topic of slavery or secession but rather to shed light on just how divided we were as a nation at the time of the ACW and how "some" of the men who governed our nation saw that very confusing time of our history as a nation..
 
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unionblue

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#2
For the record; a "rebellion" is a violent "uprising of the masses" against their leadership, as opposed to "resistance" in general, which can be armed or unarmed and for any goal including marginal or complete change to a system of government. Rebellion may cause revolution, but one does not necessarily indicate the other.

A "revolution" means a change in the way a country is governed, usually to a different political system and often using violence or war. When a revolt happens, there is also violent action against authority, but the scope and consequences are smaller, more limited...

Rebellion, revolution, uprising, revolt, insurrection, mutiny all basically mean an outbreak against authority. rebellion implies an open formidable resistance that is often unsuccessful.

Regardless of how you personally define the American Civil War as being; be it rebellion, revolt, revolution, invasion or the act of preserving the union, it became a full scale Civil War which fell upon our country, that resulted in 620,000 "American" lives being taken, over the course of 4 years, as a direct consequence of that war. Which is an astounding number taking into consideration that 644,000 Americans were killed in all other conflicts in which our Nation has fought wars. Roughly 1,264,000 American soldiers have died in the nation's wars since we have become a nation, with the American Civil War alone representing nearly half of that number regarding Americans killed in war, and on our own soil no less.

Few who research the American Civil War really profoundly understand the depth of the opposition which turned a rebellion into full scale Civil War and from whence that opposition came. The ACW truly divided us as a nation, in more ways than most understand. After committing myself to hundred`s of hours of research regarding this topic of conversation, I was surprised at my findings. Allow me to share some of those with you.

When I state that the American Civil War divided us as a nation, to bear this out you need only look at the plethora of current and former U.S. government officials, spanning several administrations, as well as Officers in the U.S. Army, who resigned their positions in our government at the time of the war and joined the Confederate States of America or those who had long been out of their positions of power with-in our government who went on to either join the Confederate States Army, became Confederate Senators and Representatives or gave their allegiance and support to the Confederate States of America. This to include numerous U.S. Army and Cavalry Officers, a former U.S. President and Vice-President, several former U.S. Secretaries of War, Secreteries of State, Secretaries of the Treasury, Secretaries of the Interior, Secretaries of the Navy, numerous U.S. Senators and Members of the U.S. House of Representatives, to include former Speakers of the House.

The 1860 Presidential Campaign was a highly contested quadrennial election held between 4 principal candidates: Abraham Lincoln, John C. Breckinridge (sitting vice-president at the time), John Bell & Stephen A. Douglas. On November 6, 1860, Abraham Lincoln won and was elected as the 16th President of the United States of America with Hannibal Hamlin elected as his Vice-President. Half of the 4 candidates who lost in this General election to Lincoln, joined the Confederate States of America, those being Breckinridge and Bell.

Right after the Inauguration of President Abraham Lincoln, Vice-President John C. Breckinridge won a seat in the Senate and served in that capacity for about 6 mos. at which time he joined the Confederate cause and entered service in the Confederate States Army as a Brigadier General, his first action was leading his men into Battle at Shiloh, Tennessee. By April 1862 he was promoted to the rank of Maj. General as he was fighting in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and by January 1865 he was appointed the fifth and last Confederate Secretary of War and was Captured with Confedrate President Jefferson Davis just four months later, on May 10, 1865 at Irwinville, Georgia which brought the Civil War to an end.

John Bell, threw his support behind the Confederacy after the fall of Fort Sumpter. He was formerly the Speaker of the House for the 23rd Congress (1834–1835), and briefly served as Secretary of War during the administration of William Henry Harrison (1841). Although a slaveowner, Bell was one of the few southern politicians to oppose the expansion of slavery in the 1850s, and campaigned vigorously against secession in the years leading up to the American Civil War. During his 1860 presidential campaign, he argued that secession was unnecessary since the Constitution protected slavery, an argument which resonated with voters in border states, helping him capture the electoral votes of Tennessee, Kentucky, and Virginia. After the Battle of Fort Sumter in April 1861, Bell abandoned the Union cause and supported the Confederacy. On April 23, 1861 he called for the state of Tennessee to align itself with the Confederacy and prepare a defense against a federal invasion. Bell's defection to the Confederate cause stunned Unionist leaders. Louisville Journal editor George D. Prentice wrote that Bell's decision brought "unspeakable mortification, and disgust, and indignation" to his long-time supporters. Horace Greeley lamented such an "ignominious close" to Bell's public career. Knoxville Whig editor (and future Tennessee governor) William Brownlow derided Bell as the "officiating Priest" at the altar of the "false god of Disunion."

The 10th President of the United States of America, John Tyler, joined the Confederacy and was elected to the Confederate Congress when the war first broke upon the country. What was really surprising to me was that half of President James Buchanan`s Administration resigned and joined the Confederate States of America, who were in charge of the governmet up until 4 Mar 1861 when Abraham Lincoln was sworn in as the 16th President of the United States of America.

In every presidential administration you had the President, Vice-President, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of War, Attorney General, Postmaster General, Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of the Interior. Half of Buchanan`s Administration (4 of 8), to include 3 of his 7 Cabinet Members (Howell, Floyd and Thompson), resigned and joined the Confederate Cause.

In addition to Vice-President John C. Breckinridge, in President Buchanan`s Administration, Buchanan had 3 of his Cabinet members also join the Confederate cause:

The 22nd U. S. Secretary of Treasury, Howell Cobb, under President Buchanan, also former Speaker of the U. S. House of Representatives (1849 - 1851), later served in the Confederacy as a General and lead troops into battle to fight for the Confederate cause. Cobb is, however, probably best known as one of the founders of the Confederacy, having served as the President of the Provisional Congress of the Confederate States. Cobb served as the Confederate Provisional Head of State for two weeks between the foundation of the Confederacy and the election of Jefferson Davis as its first President (4 Feb 1861 - 18 Feb 1861). As the Speaker of the Congress, he was provisional Head of State at this time.

The 24th Secretary of War under Buchanan, John Floyd became a Brig. General in the Confederate Army and fought under Robert E. Lee in Virginia.

Buchanan`s Secretary of the Interior, Jacob Thompson became the Inspector General of the Confederate States Army and was the leader of the Confederate Secret Service. Making a total of 4 of his administration, to include Breckinridge, to join and fight for the southern cause. These Gentlemen were the U. S. Government up until the day that Lincoln was sworn in. As a matter of fact nearly all of Buchanan`s Cabinet resigned after South Carolina seceded, save for Breckinridge who remained with him until the end of his term a few months later when Lincoln was sworn in.

Regarding other previous Presidential Administrations; Charles Magill Conrad served in the Confederate Congress. He was acting U.S. Secretary of State in 1852 and the 22nd Secretary of War under President Millard Fillmore and, briefly, Franklin Pierce, from 1850 until 1853. It was he that Jefferson Davis succeeded as the 23rd U.S. Secretary of War in President Franklin Pierces Administration.

In 1861, the 21st Secretary of War under President`s Zachary Taylor and Millard Fillmore (1849 - 1850), George Walker Crawford, was elected a delegate from Richmond County to the state's Secession Convention which brought him out of retirement to answer the call of his constituents. By the convention's first order of business, Crawford was elected Permanent President of the Convention by which he presided over Georgia's decision to secede from the Union. Crawford was to be tried for inciting a rebellion due to his role in presiding over the state's secession and was excluded from eligibility for both Lincoln's and Johnson's amnesty proclamations because of his leadership status.

President`s Zachary Taylor and Millard Fillmore`s 19th U.S. Secretary of the Navy (1849 - 1850), William Ballard Preston was an American politician who served as a Confederate States Senator from Virginia from February 18, 1862, until his death in November 1862.

President Millard Fillmore`s 20th U.S. Secretary of the Navy (1850 - 1852), William Alexander Graham, a former U. S. Senator (1840 - 1843) who later became a Senator in the Confederate States Senate (North Carolina) from 1864 to 1865 threw his full allegiance and support behind the Confederate States of America.

Regarding U.S. Army and Cavalry Officers who resigned their commissions and joined the Confederate Army were: Albert Sidney Johnston, Robert E. Lee, William J. Hardee, Earl Van Dorn, Edmund Kirby Smith, P.G.T. Beauregard, Fitzhugh Lee, Joseph E. Johnston, J.E.B. Stuart, John Bell Hood, Joseph Wheeler, Samuel Wragg Ferguson, William Hicks Jackson, Charles Field and others scarcely less famous. 29 officers alone from the 1st and 2nd U.S. Cavalry (Formed by the 23rd U.S. Secretary of War Jefferson Davis in 1855) would become Confederate Generals in the Civil War. So many Officers resigned and joined the Confederate cause that they had to be replaced with very green unexperienced officers to take their place. Which regarding the Cavalry this gave the Confederate States Army a sound advantage up until around 1863.

The reason that I post this is to illuminate the conversation, as many think that the Civil War was just an "uprising" or simply a "rebellion" when in fact it was so much more, it was by all accounts a full scale Civil War. And when you see the likes of the very prominent men who joined the Confederate Cause as former leaders who served in our U.S. Government and Military spanning numerous administrations that becomes evident. Passions were heated and men were willing on both sides to fight, and die if necessary, for a cause that they believed in, to defend their narrative regarding the war. It was a dark time in our history, one which I truly hope that we will never have to repeat again, at least in my lifetime.

Again this post is not intended to digress into the topic of slavery or secession but rather to shed light on just how divided we were as a nation at the time of the ACW and how "some" of the men who governed our nation saw that very confusing time of our history as a nation.
And?
 
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Jan 29, 2019
Messages
305
#4
I was trying to demonstrate how even those who were actually governing our nation at one time or the other were at odds with one another regarding which side of the war that they should fall on, and how it may legitimize the war in the eyes of the ones whom were fighting for the confederacy who perceived half of the previous administration taking the same narrative as they and the other half who stayed the course with the government. It would be similar to our current president losing the next election and half of his administration, to include his vice-president, along with a large number of our best and most competent officers of our military resigning and joining a rebellion which lead to a Civil War against the ones who defeated him. There are people today who would most likely fight that war on both sides. That was my intent anyway, perhaps I did not convey what I was attempting to convey which resulted in a failure on my part.
 
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lelliott19

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#6
@2nd Alabama Cavalry I enjoyed reading your post. It certainly interesting to see the names of the men and their former positions in the US government all in one place. Im pretty familiar with Howell Cobb because I am working on the regiment he first served as Colonel - 16th GA. but was not familiar with some of the others you mentioned. Thanks again for posting.
 
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#7
Regardless of how you personally define the American Civil War as being; be it rebellion, revolt, revolution, invasion or the act of preserving the union, it became a full scale Civil War which fell upon our country, that resulted in 620,000 "American" lives being taken, over the course of 4 years, as a direct consequence of that war. Which is an astounding number taking into consideration that 644,000 Americans were killed in all other conflicts in which our Nation has fought wars. Roughly 1,264,000 American soldiers have died in the nation's wars since we have become a nation, with the American Civil War alone representing nearly half of that number regarding Americans killed in war, and on our own soil no less.

Few who research the American Civil War really profoundly understand the depth of the opposition which turned a rebellion into full scale Civil War and from whence that opposition came. The ACW truly divided us as a nation, in more ways than most understand. After committing myself to hundred`s of hours of research regarding this topic of conversation, I was surprised at my findings. Allow me to share some of those with you.

When I state that the American Civil War divided us as a nation, to bear this out you need only look at the plethora of current and former U.S. government officials, spanning several administrations, as well as Officers in the U.S. Army, who resigned their positions in our government at the time of the war and joined the Confederate States of America or those who had long been out of their positions of power with-in our government who went on to either join the Confederate States Army, became Confederate Senators and Representatives or gave their allegiance and support to the Confederate States of America. This to include numerous U.S. Army and Cavalry Officers, a former U.S. President and Vice-President, several former U.S. Secretaries of War, Secreteries of State, Secretaries of the Treasury, Secretaries of the Interior, Secretaries of the Navy, numerous U.S. Senators and Members of the U.S. House of Representatives, to include former Speakers of the House.

The 1860 Presidential Campaign was a highly contested quadrennial election held between 4 principal candidates: Abraham Lincoln, John C. Breckinridge (sitting vice-president at the time), John Bell & Stephen A. Douglas. On November 6, 1860, Abraham Lincoln won and was elected as the 16th President of the United States of America with Hannibal Hamlin elected as his Vice-President. Half of the 4 candidates who lost in this General election to Lincoln, joined the Confederate States of America, those being Breckinridge and Bell.

Right after the Inauguration of President Abraham Lincoln, Vice-President John C. Breckinridge won a seat in the Senate and served in that capacity for about 6 mos. at which time he joined the Confederate cause and entered service in the Confederate States Army as a Brigadier General, his first action was leading his men into Battle at Shiloh, Tennessee. By April 1862 he was promoted to the rank of Maj. General as he was fighting in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and by January 1865 he was appointed the fifth and last Confederate Secretary of War and was Captured with Confedrate President Jefferson Davis just four months later, on May 10, 1865 at Irwinville, Georgia which brought the Civil War to an end.

John Bell, threw his support behind the Confederacy after the fall of Fort Sumpter. He was formerly the Speaker of the House for the 23rd Congress (1834–1835), and briefly served as Secretary of War during the administration of William Henry Harrison (1841). Although a slaveowner, Bell was one of the few southern politicians to oppose the expansion of slavery in the 1850s, and campaigned vigorously against secession in the years leading up to the American Civil War. During his 1860 presidential campaign, he argued that secession was unnecessary since the Constitution protected slavery, an argument which resonated with voters in border states, helping him capture the electoral votes of Tennessee, Kentucky, and Virginia. After the Battle of Fort Sumter in April 1861, Bell abandoned the Union cause and supported the Confederacy. On April 23, 1861 he called for the state of Tennessee to align itself with the Confederacy and prepare a defense against a federal invasion. Bell's defection to the Confederate cause stunned Unionist leaders. Louisville Journal editor George D. Prentice wrote that Bell's decision brought "unspeakable mortification, and disgust, and indignation" to his long-time supporters. Horace Greeley lamented such an "ignominious close" to Bell's public career. Knoxville Whig editor (and future Tennessee governor) William Brownlow derided Bell as the "officiating Priest" at the altar of the "false god of Disunion."

The 10th President of the United States of America, John Tyler, joined the Confederacy and was elected to the Confederate Congress when the war first broke upon the country. What was really surprising to me was that half of President James Buchanan`s Administration resigned and joined the Confederate States of America, who were in charge of the governmet up until 4 Mar 1861 when Abraham Lincoln was sworn in as the 16th President of the United States of America.

In every presidential administration you had the President, Vice-President, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of War, Attorney General, Postmaster General, Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of the Interior. Half of Buchanan`s Administration (4 of 8), to include 3 of his 7 Cabinet Members (Howell, Floyd and Thompson), resigned and joined the Confederate Cause.

In addition to Vice-President John C. Breckinridge, in President Buchanan`s Administration, Buchanan had 3 of his Cabinet members also join the Confederate cause:

The 22nd U. S. Secretary of Treasury, Howell Cobb, under President Buchanan, also former Speaker of the U. S. House of Representatives (1849 - 1851), later served in the Confederacy as a General and lead troops into battle to fight for the Confederate cause. Cobb is, however, probably best known as one of the founders of the Confederacy, having served as the President of the Provisional Congress of the Confederate States. Cobb served as the Confederate Provisional Head of State for two weeks between the foundation of the Confederacy and the election of Jefferson Davis as its first President (4 Feb 1861 - 18 Feb 1861). As the Speaker of the Congress, he was provisional Head of State at this time.

The 24th Secretary of War under Buchanan, John Floyd became a Brig. General in the Confederate Army and fought under Robert E. Lee in Virginia.

Buchanan`s Secretary of the Interior, Jacob Thompson became the Inspector General of the Confederate States Army and was the leader of the Confederate Secret Service. Making a total of 4 of his administration, to include Breckinridge, to join and fight for the southern cause. These Gentlemen were the U. S. Government up until the day that Lincoln was sworn in. As a matter of fact nearly all of Buchanan`s Cabinet resigned after South Carolina seceded, save for Breckinridge who remained with him until the end of his term a few months later when Lincoln was sworn in.

Regarding other previous Presidential Administrations; Charles Magill Conrad served in the Confederate Congress. He was acting U.S. Secretary of State in 1852 and the 22nd Secretary of War under President Millard Fillmore and, briefly, Franklin Pierce, from 1850 until 1853. It was he that Jefferson Davis succeeded as the 23rd U.S. Secretary of War in President Franklin Pierces Administration.

In 1861, the 21st Secretary of War under President`s Zachary Taylor and Millard Fillmore (1849 - 1850), George Walker Crawford, was elected a delegate from Richmond County to the state's Secession Convention which brought him out of retirement to answer the call of his constituents. By the convention's first order of business, Crawford was elected Permanent President of the Convention by which he presided over Georgia's decision to secede from the Union. Crawford was to be tried for inciting a rebellion due to his role in presiding over the state's secession and was excluded from eligibility for both Lincoln's and Johnson's amnesty proclamations because of his leadership status.

President`s Zachary Taylor and Millard Fillmore`s 19th U.S. Secretary of the Navy (1849 - 1850), William Ballard Preston was an American politician who served as a Confederate States Senator from Virginia from February 18, 1862, until his death in November 1862.

President Millard Fillmore`s 20th U.S. Secretary of the Navy (1850 - 1852), William Alexander Graham, a former U. S. Senator (1840 - 1843) who later became a Senator in the Confederate States Senate (North Carolina) from 1864 to 1865 threw his full allegiance and support behind the Confederate States of America.

Regarding U.S. Army and Cavalry Officers who resigned their commissions and joined the Confederate Army were: Albert Sidney Johnston, Robert E. Lee, William J. Hardee, Earl Van Dorn, Edmund Kirby Smith, P.G.T. Beauregard, Fitzhugh Lee, Joseph E. Johnston, J.E.B. Stuart, John Bell Hood, Joseph Wheeler, Samuel Wragg Ferguson, William Hicks Jackson, Charles Field and others scarcely less famous. 29 officers alone from the 1st and 2nd U.S. Cavalry (Formed by the 23rd U.S. Secretary of War Jefferson Davis in 1855) would become Confederate Generals in the Civil War. So many Officers resigned and joined the Confederate cause that they had to be replaced with very green unexperienced officers to take their place. Which regarding the Cavalry this gave the Confederate States Army a sound advantage up until around 1863.

The reason that I post this is to illuminate the conversation, as many think that the Civil War was just an "uprising" or simply a "rebellion" when in fact it was so much more, it was by all accounts a full scale Civil War. And when you see the likes of the very prominent men who joined the Confederate Cause as former leaders who served in our U.S. Government and Military spanning numerous administrations that becomes evident. Passions were heated and men were willing on both sides to fight, and die if necessary, for a cause that they believed in, to defend their narrative regarding the war. It was a dark time in our history, one which I truly hope that we will never have to repeat again, at least in my lifetime.

Again this post is not intended to digress into the topic of slavery or secession but rather to shed light on just how divided we were as a nation at the time of the ACW and how "some" of the men who governed our nation saw that very confusing time of our history as a nation.
From what I read about John Bell he reluctantly supported the Confederacy but did not take a leadership role. His wife stated he was very sad when he saw Union POWs. If anyone wants they can show how Bell took a more active role in the leadership of the Confederacy.
Not aware of former President Taylor taking an active role in Secession or the early part of the ACW. Any details?
Of course I will stipulate that Davis,Cobb,Floyd and Breckenridge did play a major role in he Confederacy. A case can be made that Floyd may of helped the Union more then the Confederacy.
Yes Civil War's divide countries and the ACW was not the first or last major Civil War. Not sure what you point is other then yes the US was badly divided.
Leftyhunter
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
305
#8
@2nd Alabama Cavalry I enjoyed reading your post. It certainly interesting to see the names of the men and their former positions in the US government all in one place. Im pretty familiar with Howell Cobb because I am working on the regiment he first served as Colonel - 16th GA. but was not familiar with some of the others you mentioned. Thanks again for posting.
Thanks, Howell Cobb has a really interesting story... One that I was not familiar with for a long time. He in essence was one of the primary forces in forming the Confederate States government and he was the first interim leader of the Confederate States of America up until Jefferson Davis was elected its first president on 18 Feb 1861. His story is one of the ones that really started me thinking to maybe research other cabinet members from previous administrations to try and find more like him.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
Messages
305
#10
From what I read about John Bell he reluctantly supported the Confederacy but did not take a leadership role. His wife stated he was very sad when he saw Union POWs. If anyone wants they can show how Bell took a more active role in the leadership of the Confederacy.
Not aware of former President Taylor taking an active role in Secession or the early part of the ACW. Any details?
Of course I will stipulate that Davis,Cobb,Floyd and Breckenridge did play a major role in he Confederacy. A case can be made that Floyd may of helped the Union more then the Confederacy.
Yes Civil War's divide countries and the ACW was not the first or last major Civil War. Not sure what you point is other then yes the US was badly divided.
Leftyhunter
Yes I would say that the deal breaker with Bell was Fort Sumter, or how he perceived it to be, that and when the war reached in to Tennessee. He seemed like a man torn between allegiance to his Nation and his State.

As for Tyler, here is a piece that I wrote on him previously on CWT

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/th...-in-the-confederate-states-of-america.155071/
 

lelliott19

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#11
Thanks, Howell Cobb has a really interesting story... One that I was not familiar with for a long time. He in essence was one of the primary forces in forming the Confederate States government and he was the first interim leader of the Confederate States of America up until Jefferson Davis was elected its first president on 18 Feb 1861. His story is one of the ones that really started me thinking to maybe research other cabinet members from previous administrations to try and find more like him.
Right. Its important to remember that Cobb was, at one time, considered a "Unionist" and, at least until 1859 or 60, was considered a "moderate" southerner. In 1842, he was elected to the US House from the 6th District (NE GA) and served from 1842-1851. In the Dec. 1849 "nail-biter," he was narrowly elected Speaker of the House and served as such 1849-1851. He supported the annexation of Texas and advocated extending the MO Compromise line to the Pacific. He was considered a Southern Unionist, who supported the 1850 Compromise working with Toombs and Alex Stephens to convince voters to send Unionist delegates to the state convention.

He was governor of Georgia 1851-1854, elected from the "Constitutional Union Party" (pro-Union Democrats and Whigs.) His platform alienated pro-secessionist Democrats and left him politically isolated. So much so, that he was defeated in 1854 when he ran for a seat in the the US Senate. His home district was mostly Unionist so, in 1855, they voted him in for another term in the House. He served as Buchanan's US Secretary of the Treasury from 1857 to December 8, 1860, when he resigned.

By the time of his resignation, his views had changed significantly. His brother TRR Cobb had already been promoting secession and wrote to him the same day his resignation became official:
Every thing is alining[sic] for Secession. Georgia is certain to go out – The great trouble lies in 5th & 6th Dists [districts] Oh! for your personal help! If you don't come home I shall spend my strength in the 6th [district] [Tom Cobb, letter to Howell Cobb, Dec 8, 1860. Howell Cobb family papers, ms 1376. Hargrett Rare Book and Manuscript Library, University of Georgia Libraries.]
Indeed, he did return to Georgia, where he supported secession and gave some of those speeches he has come to be known for. As you mentioned, he served as the President of the Provisional Congress, and on February 18, 1861, it was Howell Cobb who administered the 'oath of office' to Jeff Davis and Alex Stephens on the steps of the State Capitol in Montgomery, Alabama.
 
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#12
Yes I would say that the deal breaker with Bell was Fort Sumter, or how he perceived it to be, that and when the war reached in to Tennessee. He seemed like a man torn between allegiance to his Nation and his State.

As for Tyler, here is a piece that I wrote on him previously on CWT

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/th...-in-the-confederate-states-of-america.155071/
Interesting about Tyler . Bell was as mentioned a marginal figure at best during the ACW.
Leftyhunter
 

Cavalry Charger

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#13
When you bring all the names and positions of these men together it makes me wonder about motives and whether their decisions centred around

1/ A real sense of threat to the Constitution (?)
2/ Loyalty to their States (rights)
3/ Their own desire to maintain slavery and its expansion into the territories

Of course, there are the Declarations of Secession, the cause of all of these appearing to be centred around slavery.

I have not studied them thoroughly but if the Constitution was the issue or the rights of States (who prior to the CW were in a position to maintain their slaveholding status) why not focus the Declarations on these issues rather than slavery?

Just a question I'm hoping someone can answer, but it seems all these things became tied together in the circumstance of the CW.

And it is important to understand motives.

Howell Cobb is an interesting point in question. I don't know anything about him, but as @lelliott19 pointed out at the time of his resignation his views had changed considerably. Why?
 
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#14
When you bring all the names and positions of these men together it makes me wonder about motives and whether their decisions centred around

1/ A real sense of threat to the Constitution (?)
2/ Loyalty to their States (rights)
3/ Their own desire to maintain slavery and its expansion into the territories

Of course, there are the Declarations of Secession, the cause of all of these appearing to be centred around slavery.

I have not studied them thoroughly but if the Constitution was the issue or the rights of States (who prior to the CW were in a position to maintain their slaveholding status) why not focus the Declarations on these issues rather than slavery?

Just a question I'm hoping someone can answer, but it seems all these things became tied together in the circumstance of the CW.

And it is important to understand motives.

Howell Cobb is an interesting point in question. I don't know anything about him, but as @lelliott19 pointed out at the time of his resignation his views had changed considerably. Why?
So far in eleven years on CWT only one poster @Johnny Reb in Mi can identify what so called State rights was threatened by the Lincoln Adminstration and that is the right to own slaves. So far no other poster can define what state right was lost after the ACW.
Leftyhunter
 
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#15
When you bring all the names and positions of these men together it makes me wonder about motives and whether their decisions centred around
That was one of the reasons why I made the post... When you see it from the perspective of numerous former government officials from several previous administrations, who at one time was the government, either resigning their positions (in the case of Buchanan`s Administration) or others who had been out of office for some time, joining the Confederate cause, it brings a few questions to the forefront. In addition to a plethora of officers in the U.S. Army and Cavalry doing the same regarding their commissions and joining the Confederate States Army. I think you pose a few very good questions Cavalry Charger. One of the points that I was trying to convey was that to "Johnny Reb" fighting on the front line he saw all of these former government officials joining his cause, to include a former President (Tyler), and the vice-president (Breckinridge) from the last administration, it had to legitimize the southern cause at least a little to him. Not to mention half of the previous administration resigning and joining with the Confederate cause, along with some of the best and most experienced officers in the U.S. Army and the Cavalry. It may have been a much different story if those officials had stayed on the side of the Union argument.
 
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Cavalry Charger

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#16
I think you pose a few very good questions Cavalry Charger.
Thanks. The OP posed an interesting question for me and I am currently reading the biography of Ulysses S. Grant where we see many of the officers who ended up on opposite sides of the CW working together in the army during the Mexican war. Grant, apparently, was very drawn to the Southerners. And we also see the camaraderie that existed between men on opposite sides when there was a lull in the fighting. The causes of division are always interesting and for such an enormous fracture to occur which divided men who we know were once friends, or devoted to their Government, I don't think it's something that can be easily skimmed over.
 

WJC

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#17
it became a full scale Civil War
I'm sure your intent is to underline the intensity, ferocity and devastation of the conflict.
However, though the term is the most popular description, the conflict was not a "civil war': the rebels never intended to topple and replace the United States government. Their intent was independence.
 

WJC

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#18
to shed light on just how divided we were as a nation at the time of the ACW and how "some" of the men who governed our nation saw that very confusing time of our history as a nation..
No one in the past 150 years has underestimated the conflict and its divisiveness. That is part of its continuing appeal.
 

lelliott19

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#20
Howell Cobb is an interesting point in question. I don't know anything about him, but as @lelliott19 pointed out at the time of his resignation his views had changed considerably. Why?
So far in eleven years on CWT only one poster [] can identify what so called State rights was threatened by the Lincoln Adminstration and that is the right to own slaves. So far no other poster can define what state right was lost after the ACW.
Leftyhunter
Right lefty, you have asked that question before. :D I dont think I have ever attempted to answer your question, but since @Cavalry Charger asked about Howell Cobb's motivations I'll give it a shot.

I think, at least in Cobb's case, advocating for secession was more about the rights that Southern states would potentially lose under the Lincoln administration and a majority Republican congress. Up to that time, the south had enjoyed a majority voice in Congress. In 1860 during the 36th US Congress, the the tides shifted and, the Republican party outnumbered the Democratic party.

@alan polk 's thread Pre-War Newspaper Comparison https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ju...war-newspaper-comparison.154355/#post-1980355 has provided me with a better understanding of southern perceptions at the lead-up to the war. As I interpret it, for most southern politicians at the time, "states rights" was their way to describe decentralized government. (IDK, maybe they didnt even have the term decentralized government back then?) Anyway, to use slavery as a substitute or synonym of "states rights," or to imply that they are the same, oversimplifies the antebellum period, leaves out perceived partiality, and gives the impression of a narrow understanding of the politics of the time, at least as far as Southern perceptions go. If you read some of the articles in Alan's thread perhaps you'll gain a better understanding of some of the perceived fears of southern politicians.

For Cobb and many other Southern politicians, I think it was more about the threat of lost representation in Congress; the threat of a more centralized government; the fear of losing decentralized government; the perceived partiality of government spending; and perceived favoritism in investment and infrastructure. Basically, the southern politicians didn't want to be the minority in Congress. And that was happening - regardless of whether slavery was protected in the areas where it already existed.

So when the question is asked: "What state right was lost" it is implied that there is only one answer -slavery. I would suggest that a better answer is "all of them." You can insert anything you like. Something that might have been predictable at the time or not - including slavery. Anything you put there would no longer be a decision to be solely delegated to the state. Without delving too much into modern issues, look at the challenges Colorado has in trying to exercise its own "states right." :smoke:
 



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