That'll be the point that's been way over your head since the beginning.You seem to be missing the point. If you are the Prince, then you demonstrate to me why your order is just. Then I'll decide if it is, and whether or not it will be honored.
That'll be the point that's been way over your head since the beginning.
Let's explain this one more time. Sloooooooooooowly.
Forms of government are just and in accordance with natural right when they protect individual rights (as outline in the DOI and more thoroughly in Locke). This was the case with the US government to a greater extent than any previous form of government in human history, with the glaring exception (mostly) of those held in slavery.
You can, of course, decide that this was not the case and not honor it. You can, in practical terms, have your revolution and then tell people for the next 160 years that the cause was just.
But what you cannot do it dress it up as justified via a natural rights argument. You don't get to twist those arguments in a way that suits you. If you want it to be a natural right you have to explain where that right comes from and it must include the right to enslave other men. This you are singularly failing to do.
So you're not going to answer?
An eloquent defense of Lincoln's course of action. He sure did act to dissolve those unjust authorities.... Now then, if you establish an unjust order, or if you fail to maintain a just order, I will, without apology, act to dissolve your unjust order and replace it with a just order. ...
As per #1206 above:
1) You seem to be stating that 100% of the slaves were transported by "New England slave-traffickers." Is that actually true?
2) Weren't the Dutch, British, Portugese and Spanish transporting slaves as well?
3) Is your apparent insistence that "New England slave-traffickers" are the only responsible parties based on historical analysis?
4) If so, can you provide that?
Answer these and I will gladly answer yours.
How can that be unlike me? I said that is how i felt in the previous message.Unlike you, I see slavery as unjust. Even in Missouri, Kentucky, Delaware, New Jersey, Maryland, and West Virginia.
Surprised to hear it. I feel the same way. I said so earlier in this thread.I also think New England slave-trafficking is unjust.
Very surprised to hear this. Especially since the U.S. was a slave-republic and you defend their slave-owning vigorously.How can that be unlike me? I said that is how i felt in the previous message.
Still im surprised you feel that way, since your posts dont reflect it
Surprised to hear it. I feel the same way. I said so earlier in this thread.
The FFs did not create "any political order [they] chose and declare it just". In fact they laid out very clearly in the DOI what the only just political order would look like - one that protects individual rights. Far from corrupting and distorting the meaning of a just order they carefully explained what one was for the whole world to see.The subtlies of this argument seem to be beyond your grasp, so let me go over it again. Slowly. Very, very sloooooooooooooowly. As slow as Vermont Molasses moves in January. If you are the governing authority, you have the solemn obligation to establish a just civil society. That responsibility is exclusively yours. With me so far? Good. Now then, if you establish an unjust order, or if you fail to maintain a just order, I will, without apology, act to dissolve your unjust order and replace it with a just order. And it is you who will demonstrate to me, that the order is just.
But what you cannot do is establish any political order you choose and call it just. You will not be permitted to corrupt and distort the meaning of a just order to suit your personal political interests. Still with me? OK. You, as the ruling authority, have the obligation to institute sound, fair, and just policies and practices. You have that solemn obligation. Still understand? Good. Now demonstrate to my satisfaction that the political order is just, and I will permit you to remain the ruling authority. If you cannot so demonstrate, you will be removed.