The Real Cause of Secession

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
11
Hello, The North with their heavy use of Child Labor, as young as 8, fo 12 hours a day, produced shoddy goods in comparison to European Quality. The U. S. Government placed tarriffs on imports and exports. ( Especially Cotton). Andrew Jackson stopped the South from seceding during His Presidency. The People of the Confederate States of America had no intentions of dieing for anything. Jeff Davis bought back most U. S. Government within Southern Borders. It was the aggressive fortifying, by the North, of Fort Sumpter that triggered hostilities.
The South had legally seceeded from the Union, ( There was nothing in the constitution nor the law of the land forbidding secession.)
Certain elements in the North were willing to send other people's sons to die in order to asuage their lust for money and power.
My ancestors had no choice but to defend themselves from Northern Agression fomented by greedy power hungry industrialists, politicians and various other groups intent on stealing Southern wealth. The South was and up until the early 20th Century a mostly agrarian society with very little manufacturing.
I might suggest "The South Under Siege 1830 until 2001" by Frank Conner as a source for understanding Southern Culture and such.
 

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
17,045
Location
los angeles ca
Hello, The North with their heavy use of Child Labor, as young as 8, fo 12 hours a day, produced shoddy goods in comparison to European Quality. The U. S. Government placed tarriffs on imports and exports. ( Especially Cotton). Andrew Jackson stopped the South from seceding during His Presidency. The People of the Confederate States of America had no intentions of dieing for anything. Jeff Davis bought back most U. S. Government within Southern Borders. It was the aggressive fortifying, by the North, of Fort Sumpter that triggered hostilities.
The South had legally seceeded from the Union, ( There was nothing in the constitution nor the law of the land forbidding secession.)
Certain elements in the North were willing to send other people's sons to die in order to asuage their lust for money and power.
My ancestors had no choice but to defend themselves from Northern Agression fomented by greedy power hungry industrialists, politicians and various other groups intent on stealing Southern wealth. The South was and up until the early 20th Century a mostly agrarian society with very little manufacturing.
I might suggest "The South Under Siege 1830 until 2001" by Frank Conner as a source for understanding Southern Culture and such.
Your point about secession being legal is false. Secession is illegal based on Texas v.White which in turn is based on antebellum law.
No one stole Southern wealth after the ACW. Davis could not find a cash buyer for his property and had to finance a sale from a former slave. Even then the ex slave could not make his payments and then Davis had to find another buyer.
Southerners were not going to die fighting because they have to pay a tiny bit more for imported products. Tariffs were a historic low just before the ACW.
Your ancestors fought to preserve slavery. The various Ordinances of Secession make it quite clear . We have many threads on that subject.
Leftyhunter
 

Virginia Dave

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
636
Location
Waynesboro, Virginia
Hello, The North with their heavy use of Child Labor, as young as 8, fo 12 hours a day, produced shoddy goods in comparison to European Quality. The U. S. Government placed tarriffs on imports and exports. ( Especially Cotton). Andrew Jackson stopped the South from seceding during His Presidency. The People of the Confederate States of America had no intentions of dieing for anything. Jeff Davis bought back most U. S. Government within Southern Borders. It was the aggressive fortifying, by the North, of Fort Sumpter that triggered hostilities.
The South had legally seceeded from the Union, ( There was nothing in the constitution nor the law of the land forbidding secession.)
Certain elements in the North were willing to send other people's sons to die in order to asuage their lust for money and power.
My ancestors had no choice but to defend themselves from Northern Agression fomented by greedy power hungry industrialists, politicians and various other groups intent on stealing Southern wealth. The South was and up until the early 20th Century a mostly agrarian society with very little manufacturing.
I might suggest "The South Under Siege 1830 until 2001" by Frank Conner as a source for understanding Southern Culture and such.
Hello and welcome to CWT. You are going to need more confirmable statistics and facts to back up your opinion. I look forward to hearing more. Keep it civil and be sure to read the replies that you receive carefully.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
131
This is a topic, that unfortunately, will never be resolved. It's one of those divisive subjects that splits the population. 50% will tell you the war was over States Rights (one RIGHT being slavery). The other half will tell you the war was strictly over slavery no more, no less. One thing I will add to the topic that I have noticed is that in reading literature about the Civil War there is a distinct difference in the reasoning for the war before 1960 and after the 1960's. Almost every piece of literature I've read before 1960 says the start of the war was state tensions with taxs/tarrifs like you state above. After the 1960's and the civil rights movement, suddenly everything is printing the war was about slavery, no more no less. Take that for it's worth. Just an interesting tid-bit that makes it difficult for true Civil War fans to weed out the truth from the fiction.
 

Tin cup

Captain
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
5,992
Location
Texas
Hello, The North with their heavy use of Child Labor, as young as 8, fo 12 hours a day, produced shoddy goods in comparison to European Quality. The U. S. Government placed tarriffs on imports and exports. ( Especially Cotton). Andrew Jackson stopped the South from seceding during His Presidency. The People of the Confederate States of America had no intentions of dieing for anything. Jeff Davis bought back most U. S. Government within Southern Borders. It was the aggressive fortifying, by the North, of Fort Sumpter that triggered hostilities.
The South had legally seceeded from the Union, ( There was nothing in the constitution nor the law of the land forbidding secession.)
Certain elements in the North were willing to send other people's sons to die in order to asuage their lust for money and power.
My ancestors had no choice but to defend themselves from Northern Agression fomented by greedy power hungry industrialists, politicians and various other groups intent on stealing Southern wealth. The South was and up until the early 20th Century a mostly agrarian society with very little manufacturing.
I might suggest "The South Under Siege 1830 until 2001" by Frank Conner as a source for understanding Southern Culture and such.
The south chose slavery, look where it got them.

Kevin Dally
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

rpkennedy

Major
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
9,935
Location
Carlisle, PA
The U. S. Government placed tarriffs on imports and exports. ( Especially Cotton).
Tariffs on exports are expressly unconstitutional. There was no tax on cotton and tariffs were at near historic lows in 1860.

Andrew Jackson stopped the South from seceding during His Presidency.
Secession was not widely popular outside of South Carolina when Jackson was president and Jackson's aggressive stance forced SC to back down when they saw that they were alone.

The rest of your post doesn't even resemble reality.

Ryan
 

leftyhunter

Colonel
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
17,045
Location
los angeles ca
Tariffs on exports are expressly unconstitutional. There was no tax on cotton and tariffs were at near historic lows in 1860.


NJ
Secession was not widely popular outside of South Carolina when Jackson was president and Jackson's aggressive stance forced SC to back down when they saw that they were alone.

The rest of your post doesn't even resemble reality.

Ryan
Good catch ; somehow I missed where @B. B. Johnson falsely claimed there were tariffs on exports.
Leftyhunter
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Gene Green

Sergeant
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
935
Location
Dixie
Certain elements in the North were willing to send other people's sons to die in order to asuage their lust for money and power.
Then what was this “peculiar institution” of slavery all about if it wasn’t greed and lust for money and power ? The planters had draft exemptions and anyone with enough money could buy their way out so who was doing the fighting ? Northerners could buy out also but they did not have the twenty slave rule like the southern planters did.
 

CW Buff

First Sergeant
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
1,555
Location
Connecticut
I might suggest "The South Under Siege 1830 until 2001" by Frank Conner as a source for understanding Southern Culture and such.
Hello B. B. Johnson. Welcome to the best ACW forum on the WWW.

I’d recommend getting your history from real historians, whose approach is scientific, and whose views are based on historical facts, rather than Lost Cause sentiment, modern day politics, or, worst of all, neo-confederate extremism.

Below I have quoted the explanation of the author's apparent motivations, taken from the flaps of the above-referenced book (some will no doubt have trouble believing this is real, so feel free to check it out at Amazon.com):

"The White Southerners do not known who they are, because they do not know who they were, because their true history has been systematically suppressed or distorted beyond recognition. So they are no longer a people. And as mere individuals, the traditional Southerners can no longer defend their basic interests in the national arena, or even in their own homeland. Every demagogue or racial hustler who comes along can guilt-trip today’s Southerners into doing his bidding by bludgeoning them with the “official” history of the South.

That “official” history is actually the propaganda from an unending ideological war which various groups of Northern liberals have been waging against the South ever since the 1830s. After the North won its 1861-65 war against the South, that Northern-liberal propaganda became the “official” American history that is taught universally in the classrooms, in the movies, on TV, and in the books, magazines, and newspapers. It teaches that the war was a civil war; that the South started it; that the North fought it to free the slaves and other such blatant lies.

That omnipresent “official” history also teaches that the North is good and the South is bad; that the liberals are good and the conservatives are bad; that the blacks and the feminist white-women are good and the white males are bad; and that a totalitarian-socialist government (under some other name, of course) would be good for the U.S., and that limited government in a republic under the U.S. Constitution is very bad.

The Southerners have had no defense against the liberals’ “official” history, because there have been no books to refute systematically that ocean of “official” lies about the South. This book examines the true relations between North and South from 1830 to June 2000. It identifies the real history of each region, and the lies and distortions by which Northern liberals have created totally-false stereotypes of both the Northern liberal and the traditional white Southerner. It tells what the North has done to the South; and why the North claims to have done it; and why the North really did it; and what the consequences have been. With that history laid out in one volume, the strategy and tactics of the liberals’ ideological war against the South then become obvious. The traditional Southerners (and the conservatives of the other regions) can then identify the viciousness and destructiveness of the liberal’s war against them.

If you are sick of living in a society which believes that life has no meaning or purpose; a society which is being balkanized into hostile tribes of races, ethnic groups, genders, and fanatical single-interest groups that attack one another incessantly; a society which prizes individual selfishness and kneejerk-reflex consumerism above all else, and is characterized by alienation, road rage, a dog-eat-dog corporate culture, and an all-pervasive emptiness, this book offers a solution. It proposes the South wage a war of ideas—an ideological revolutionary war-- against the North’s failed liberalism, so as to restore the traditional society of decency to the South, and bring sweetness and tranquility back into the lives of Southerners.

This book also has a powerful message for conservatives everywhere: it tells how the ideological liberals have sold socialism to the American public step by step since the late 19th century. It tells how the liberals have falsely tied racial discrimination so tightly to Southern states’ rights in the public mind as to make states’ rights anywhere (thus, constitutional government) unacceptable to the American public. The liberals’ goal is totalitarianism; and the only way to head them off is by dismantling their Southern-racial-discrimination propaganda trap which demolishes all states’ rights. The South has always been the liberals’ battlefield; and the Northern conservatives who refuse to join the Southern conservatives in the fight there will soon find themselves helpless cogs in the ideological liberals' U.S. workers’ paradise."

Honestly, real historians are NOT engaged in some kind of vast liberal history conspiracy. They simply study real history, devoid of bias, to the extent humanly possible. Of course, if you like your history with a neo-confederate bent, so be it.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

rpkennedy

Major
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
9,935
Location
Carlisle, PA
Hello B. B. Johnson. Welcome to the best ACW forum on the WWW.

I’d recommend getting your history from real historians, whose approach is scientific, and whose views are based on historical facts, rather than Lost Cause sentiment, modern day politics, or, worst of all, neo-confederate extremism.

Below I have quoted the explanation of the author's apparent motivations, taken from the flaps of the above-referenced book (some will no doubt have trouble believing this is real, so feel free to check it out at Amazon.com):

"The White Southerners do not known who they are, because they do not know who they were, because their true history has been systematically suppressed or distorted beyond recognition. So they are no longer a people. And as mere individuals, the traditional Southerners can no longer defend their basic interests in the national arena, or even in their own homeland. Every demagogue or racial hustler who comes along can guilt-trip today’s Southerners into doing his bidding by bludgeoning them with the “official” history of the South.

That “official” history is actually the propaganda from an unending ideological war which various groups of Northern liberals have been waging against the South ever since the 1830s. After the North won its 1861-65 war against the South, that Northern-liberal propaganda became the “official” American history that is taught universally in the classrooms, in the movies, on TV, and in the books, magazines, and newspapers. It teaches that the war was a civil war; that the South started it; that the North fought it to free the slaves and other such blatant lies.

That omnipresent “official” history also teaches that the North is good and the South is bad; that the liberals are good and the conservatives are bad; that the blacks and the feminist white-women are good and the white males are bad; and that a totalitarian-socialist government (under some other name, of course) would be good for the U.S., and that limited government in a republic under the U.S. Constitution is very bad.

The Southerners have had no defense against the liberals’ “official” history, because there have been no books to refute systematically that ocean of “official” lies about the South. This book examines the true relations between North and South from 1830 to June 2000. It identifies the real history of each region, and the lies and distortions by which Northern liberals have created totally-false stereotypes of both the Northern liberal and the traditional white Southerner. It tells what the North has done to the South; and why the North claims to have done it; and why the North really did it; and what the consequences have been. With that history laid out in one volume, the strategy and tactics of the liberals’ ideological war against the South then become obvious. The traditional Southerners (and the conservatives of the other regions) can then identify the viciousness and destructiveness of the liberal’s war against them.

If you are sick of living in a society which believes that life has no meaning or purpose; a society which is being balkanized into hostile tribes of races, ethnic groups, genders, and fanatical single-interest groups that attack one another incessantly; a society which prizes individual selfishness and kneejerk-reflex consumerism above all else, and is characterized by alienation, road rage, a dog-eat-dog corporate culture, and an all-pervasive emptiness, this book offers a solution. It proposes the South wage a war of ideas—an ideological revolutionary war-- against the North’s failed liberalism, so as to restore the traditional society of decency to the South, and bring sweetness and tranquility back into the lives of Southerners.

This book also has a powerful message for conservatives everywhere: it tells how the ideological liberals have sold socialism to the American public step by step since the late 19th century. It tells how the liberals have falsely tied racial discrimination so tightly to Southern states’ rights in the public mind as to make states’ rights anywhere (thus, constitutional government) unacceptable to the American public. The liberals’ goal is totalitarianism; and the only way to head them off is by dismantling their Southern-racial-discrimination propaganda trap which demolishes all states’ rights. The South has always been the liberals’ battlefield; and the Northern conservatives who refuse to join the Southern conservatives in the fight there will soon find themselves helpless cogs in the ideological liberals' U.S. workers’ paradise."

Honestly, real historians are NOT engaged in some kind of vast liberal history conspiracy. They simply study real history, devoid of bias, to the extent humanly possible. Of course, if you like your history with a neo-confederate bent, so be it.
Oh lord.

Ryan
 

Mark Roth

Corporal
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
309
Location
Whereve I Am
The South: We're seceding because you elected a guy who doesn't like slavery

The North: We don't think you can secede, but let's talk about slavery. We're prepared to guarantee you can keep it

The South: We've already left. Get the rest of your Yankee troops out of our forts!

The North: They're still ours. Wanna talk things over?

The South: We'll talk, nation to nation.

The North: You're not a nation.

The South: (starts shooting)

The North: Okay, you wanted a war...Here we come. But not all of us. And we don't want your slaves.

The South: The Yankees started a war! The Yankees started a war! The Yankees are invading us! We just wanted to be left alone!
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Mark Roth

Corporal
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
309
Location
Whereve I Am
That was my first thought. I couldn't believe they were actually proudly professing neo-confederate dogma. I've never seen anything like it before.
So, are you saying that child labor wasn't worse than the carefree childhoods of all who grew up on plantations?

On a more serious, mostly, note, I do like the bit that the South wasn't properly choosing because tariffs on European goods and shoddy Northern merchandise...so the North invaded. Or something.
 

lurid

Sergeant
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
578
The south's entire economy depended on cotton exports backed by slave labor. Once the Union blockaded southern ports its economy started to crumble, so it's palpable the reason for secession was to sustain slavery.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

Greywolf

Sergeant
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
801
Hello, The North with their heavy use of Child Labor, as young as 8, fo 12 hours a day, produced shoddy goods in comparison to European Quality. The U. S. Government placed tarriffs on imports and exports. ( Especially Cotton). Andrew Jackson stopped the South from seceding during His Presidency. The People of the Confederate States of America had no intentions of dieing for anything. Jeff Davis bought back most U. S. Government within Southern Borders. It was the aggressive fortifying, by the North, of Fort Sumpter that triggered hostilities.
The South had legally seceeded from the Union, ( There was nothing in the constitution nor the law of the land forbidding secession.)
Certain elements in the North were willing to send other people's sons to die in order to asuage their lust for money and power.
My ancestors had no choice but to defend themselves from Northern Agression fomented by greedy power hungry industrialists, politicians and various other groups intent on stealing Southern wealth. The South was and up until the early 20th Century a mostly agrarian society with very little manufacturing.
I might suggest "The South Under Siege 1830 until 2001" by Frank Conner as a source for understanding Southern Culture and such.
Welcome, do not be dismayed. It is usual to be hammered upon when espousing the view that you present. As I have often found, the truth usually lies somewhere near the middle. There are intelligent folks on here that are quite helpful. Well rounded reading on this subject is important, both sides have and make good points
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top