The predicted outcome of resupplying Ft. Sumter

major bill

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I not not sure how a Lincoln could have evacuated the fort with out the ship evacuating the troops coming under cannon fire. I do not believe South Carolina would have allowed an armed US Navy ship or even am unarmed contracted civilian ship to invade their "new" nation.
 

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WJC

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he could, however, have decided to capture or if necessary sink the us vessels (resupply or renforce, doesn't really matter) by naval forces and thus let it to maj anderson to fire the first shot with the big guns. if anderson did fire a shot he could 'rightfully' claim the north escalated it to open warfare and reduce ft sumter to rubble.

honest question: has this scenario been discussed somewhere?
Offhand, I am unsure whether it has been discussed. A search ought to tell if it has.
Regardless, had Davis ordered action against the supply ships, the arguments would have been much clearer. Hard to claim that ships at sea are trespassing... or is it? Might be an interesting discussion- in another thread.
 

Lost Cause

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I not not sure how a Lincoln could have evacuated the fort with out the ship evacuating the troops coming under cannon fire. I do not believe South Carolina would have allowed an armed US Navy ship or even am unarmed contracted civilian ship to invade their "new" nation.
On March 21, Fox visited Ft. Sumter (with a Confederate escort) under the condition the trip was for peaceful purposes. Had Lincoln chosen to evacuate Sumter, and given prior notification as such, IMO, there would have been little to no Confederate resistance.
 

CSA Today

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Article II, Section 1.
Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Any mention of secession being unconstitutional?
 

CSA Today

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I agree with you it would have been better for both sides to prevent war---But was it too later by the time of Fort Sumter?---What at that point could there have been a compromise that would have worked---I do not see one at that point in history--- before that point maybe. Emotions ruled the day----even on this board now they rule---How could we expect any difference back then at that point.
I agree, Lincoln offered no terms but to submit his demands to return to the old union while the CS was just as determined to defend its independence.
 
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you dont want to start a war to defend yourself

if you start a war to do so it needs to be a preemptive war, obviously. you don't want to do that you are forced to. if you want to start this 'defensive' war it's defensive in name only.

but who i am to doubt your words

q.e.d.
 

CSA Today

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you dont want to start a war to defend yourself

if you start a war to do so it needs to be a preemptive war, obviously. you don't want to do that you are forced to. if you want to start this 'defensive' war it's defensive in name only.

but who i am to doubt your words

q.e.d.
Apparently, Southerners, in 1861, didn't share your confidence that Lincoln wouldn't have gone to war to force them back into his union.
 

CSA Today

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To get the border south slave states off the fence and into the Confederacy. How else was he going to do it?
The addition of the upper South and border states would have roughly tripled the white population of the CS so a shrewd move once it became evident that Lincoln would go to war rather than let The CSA exist in peace.
 

W. Richardson

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The addition of the upper South and border states would have roughly tripled the white population of the CS so a shrewd move once it became evident that Lincoln would go to war rather than let The CSA exist in peace.

I have heard a few "historians" actually claim that Lincoln out foxed Davis........lol.........

IMO they broke even. Lincoln got his war, Davis got the upper South. Without the upper South, the war and the Confederacy would probably both been very short lived.

Respectfully,
William
7.JPG
 

CSA Today

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I have heard a few "historians" actually claim that Lincoln out foxed Davis........lol.........

IMO they broke even. Lincoln got his war, Davis got the upper South. Without the upper South, the war and the Confederacy would probably both been very short lived.

Respectfully,
William
View attachment 179932
If only Davis had been able to get at least a couple of the border states.
 

W. Richardson

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If only Davis had been able to get at least a couple of the border states.
Well Maryland was out. Lincoln put his iron grip around it via force. Even to approve bombardment of Maryland cities. An American president approving the bombardment of innocent men, women and children in a state that did not secede nor IIRC even held a secession convention............smh.

But that is taking the thread off topic............So I'll say no more on that matter.


Respectfully,
William
7.JPG
 

WJC

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Any mention of secession being unconstitutional?
Thanks for your response.
In this thread, I believe yours is the first mention of the off-topic subject of the constitutionality of secession.
However, in response to @unionblue's assertion that "it was the Constitution, the law, and the nation Lincoln was trying to uphold", you asked, "Uphold the constitution? Lincoln was ready to provoke war based on what obscure or non-existent clause?"
I responded, identifying that "obscure or non-existent clause".
 

CSA Today

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Well Maryland was out. Lincoln put his iron grip around it via force. Even to approve bombardment of Maryland cities. An American president approving the bombardment of innocent men, women and children in a state that did not secede nor IIRC even held a secession convention............smh.

But that is taking the thread off topic............So I'll say no more on that matter.


Respectfully,
William
View attachment 179933
Had Davis not acted when he did, what happened in Maryland could have happened in the four Upper South states.
 


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