Restricted The Lost Cause IS History!

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
since less than 20% of the southern population owned slaves, you can't say the entire southen nation fought a war to protect slavery.
Yes, I can! Those soldiers and supporters who did not own slaves were fighting to establish a nation that was based on preserving slavery.
 

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
If that was a paramount interest to the US government they would have been willing to negotiate with Confederate officials.
That ignores that the so-called 'Confederate government' would only negotiate from a position that they were a separate, independent nation, something totally unacceptable to both the Buchanan and Lincoln Administrations.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Unionblue
Are you trying to tell me the rebel colonists were fighting for the right of blacks and Indians? I seem to remember most of the Indians and most of the blacks who actively participated fought for the British.

Yep, his intentions are pretty clear as late as December 1859.

“Then came the Black Hawk War; and I was elected a Captain of Volunteers - a success which gave me more pleasure than any I have had since.”

Abraham Lincoln, December 20, 1859.
[/QUOTE]
What, he was pleased that he won an election? Yes, winning that first election probably was a motivation for his career in politics.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

PapaReb

Private
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas
Slavery was NOT "preserved" or even mentioned in our Constitution.
And by its omission granted legitimacy sowing the seeds of future discord and spilling the blood of 600,000 patriots wearing both blue and grey. I will not agree that all of the Southern troops were fighting to preserve slavery as their primary motivation just as I WILL say that all of the Union troops were not fighting for the abolition of slavery.
 

WJC

Major General
Moderator
Thread Medic
Answered the Call for Reinforcements
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
And by its omission granted legitimacy sowing the seeds of future discord and spilling the blood of 600,000 patriots wearing both blue and grey.
Thanks for your response.
That's a stretch. The Founders could not resolve their differences on slavery. Since most believed it was soon going to end due to economic causes, they left it to the States to decide. The decisions those States made are what led to "future discord and spilling the blood of 600,000 patriots".
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

PapaReb

Private
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Location
Arkansas
Thanks for your response.
That's a stretch.
I don't really think it's as much of a stretch as you think. I believe that the seeds of the second rebellion were sown at the time of the country's founding, maybe they didn't forsee the outcome but they were sowing the seeds regardless though unknowingly.

Of course everyone please keep in mind that I am sharing my opinions only and enjoying a good natured debate.
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
Are you trying to tell me the rebel colonists were fighting for the right of blacks and Indians? I seem to remember most of the Indians and most of the blacks who actively participated fought for the British.

Yep, his intentions are pretty clear as late as December 1859.

“Then came the Black Hawk War; and I was elected a Captain of Volunteers - a success which gave me more pleasure than any I have had since.”

Abraham Lincoln, December 20, 1859.
What, he was pleased that he won an election? Yes, winning that first election probably was a motivation for his career in politics.
[/QUOTE]
Isn't twisting things a bit. Said in the same sentence kinda gives him away.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
That ignores that the so-called 'Confederate government' would only negotiate from a position that they were a separate, independent nation, something totally unacceptable to both the Buchanan and Lincoln Administrations.
I understand that was Lincoln's position, but did he really expect the Confederate Government to send money to Washinton without negotiations.
 

CSA Today

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Laurinburg NC
Lincoln is talking about the natural right of revolution which is an illegal act and a resort to arms. That’s why he says “and having the power”. There is no natural right to win your revolution and governments, like people, have a natural right to self defense. In other words to suppress a rebellion.

However, unlike our founding fathers who knew they were rebelling the southern rebels tried to dress their rebellion in legality by calling it secession. Even though there was a long string of precedents that; the constitution was permanent(see James Madison and other federalists) and formed by all the people, and could only be broken by all the people, no subset of the people.( See Supreme Court cases starting with Cohens vs Virginia 1821 ), and the United States government would suppress rebellions(see George Washington’s suppression of the Whiskey rebellion and Andrew Jackson’s Nullification Proclamation).

Here’s a challenge to you. Find me one piece of evidence that shows either the federalist founding fathers, the Supreme Court, or a president before Lincoln ever said that secession was allowed under the constitution. Not the natural right of rebellion but secession.
Ugg, Lincoln took out of context and misrepresented again. This is starting to become a litany. :bounce:
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

wbull1

First Sergeant
Official Vendor
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Unionblue
Are you trying to tell me the rebel colonists were fighting for the right of blacks and Indians? I seem to remember most of the Indians and most of the blacks who actively participated fought for the British.

Yep, his intentions are pretty clear as late as December 1859.

“Then came the Black Hawk War; and I was elected a Captain of Volunteers - a success which gave me more pleasure than any I have had since.”

Abraham Lincoln, December 20, 1859.
[/QUOTE]

Perfectly clear from the quote you cited. "I was elected a Captian of Volunteers..." That election is the success he described. At other times he also discussed how being chosen by his neighbors gave him pride and encouraged him in running for office.
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

wbull1

First Sergeant
Official Vendor
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
I understand that was Lincoln's position, but did he really expect the Confederate Government to send money to Washinton without negotiations.
Of course not. Lincoln was well aware that some southern hotheads were bound and determined to start a shooting war against the United States. As I mentioned earlier, he would not negotiate with anyone who said he represented the CSA since, in his mind, the CSA did not exist as a separate nation. He and Davis both saw the disadvantage of starting the shooting and refrained for a time. Davis could not keep his supporters in check.
 

leftyhunter

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
los angeles ca
There wasn't time for the whole nation to hold an election, states were still entering the new nation as the threat of invasion by the Lincoln regime grew.
How is Lincoln heading a"regime" if he was legally elected? Either Davis won an election or he didn't. Lincoln did .
Leftyhunter
 
Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top