The last Vicksburg cave has collapsed

BrianB

Corporal
Joined
May 16, 2014
I recently took a tour with Blue & Grey Education Society down at Vicksburg. During the tour, I learned from Parker Hills that the last known Vicksburg cave - constructed as a shelter during the siege - has collapsed. The cave was located in the bluff just NW of Cedar Hill Cemetery. It apparently collapsed in recent heavy rains.
 
I recently took a tour with Blue & Grey Education Society down at Vicksburg. During the tour, I learned from Parker Hills that the last known Vicksburg cave - constructed as a shelter during the siege - has collapsed. The cave was located in the bluff just NW of Cedar Hill Cemetery. It apparently collapsed in recent heavy rains.
That’s sad to hear.
 
I really didn't know there were any left at all. They have an "odd" soil in that area and I'm surprised that any caves survived to any length of time.
The soil type is loess. It was laid down in wind blown deposits that originated from the Mississippi River valley to the west. This particular soil type is somewhat rare. Loess is found in greater abundance in northwestern Missouri within the bluffs immediately adjacent to the Missouri River valley. Loess deposits are very deep within the first several lines of river bluffs, but forms topsoils that decrease in depth as the distance from the River increases. The bluffs extend generally northward from Kansas City and continue up into southwestern Iowa. Loess soil can also be found in a region near the Yangtze River in China. I believe extensive cave systems still exist in China and they were used as dwellings.
 
That is sad news as we were just over there. There is purported to be one other that is on private property
I had not realized any had lasted until now. Were there ever any of the CW era caves open for touring?

Back in the early days of the Vicksburg NMP there were several. During the siege its reported that there were over 500 of these caves.
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Sad news indeed.

However.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few more remaining caves that are unkown to the general public.

With the soil as described above, it is amazing they lasted any time at all

Absolutely.

As @Polloco pointed out, the soil around Vicksburg is very much an anomaly.

The soil type is loess. It was laid down in wind blown deposits that originated from the Mississippi River valley to the west. This particular soil type is somewhat rare. Loess is found in greater abundance in northwestern Missouri within the bluffs immediately adjacent to the Missouri River valley. Loess deposits are very deep within the first several lines of river bluffs, but forms topsoils that decrease in depth as the distance from the River increases. The bluffs extend generally northward from Kansas City and continue up into southwestern Iowa. Loess soil can also be found in a region near the Yangtze River in China. I believe extensive cave systems still exist in China and they were used as dwellings.

Perfect explanation !

In the past, we've had some of our geologist members give fantastic explanations about loess soil, but I can't find their threads.

But for anyone wishing more info, here's another good site:

 
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Was there ever any effort to preserve some of these caves?
Not to my knowledge.
Other's may know more about that than I do.

It's my understanding, while a few caves may still exist . . . many were too dangerous to explore by the early 1900's.
However, the fact some of these "dug" caves lasted that long is remarkable, IMHO.

Here's an older discussion you may enjoy:

 
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I wonder if that is the cave we were talking about in this thread earlier this year:


I had intended to get as close to it as I could on Friday afternoon at our CWT gathering in October,but we got rained out that afternoon.
 
Loess soil is remarkably stable, as evidenced by the clean, straight sides to the entrance tunnel in the photograph in post #6. Actually, it does not surprise me that some caves survived this long. There are loess deposits many, many feet deep along the Missouri River bluffs that have been exposed to rain and snow for hundreds of years. Drivers on I-70 between Boonville and Columbia, Missouri can see loess soil faces on top of the bluffs in the notch where the highway crosses the river near Rocheport.
 
Drivers on I-70 between Boonville and Columbia, Missouri can see loess soil faces on top of the bluffs in the notch where the highway crosses the river near Rocheport.

Exact same thing on I-20 between Vicksburg & Jackson, Mississippi.

Kids have been carving everything imaginable into those Loess bluffs since forever.

My all-time fave carving was back in the 1970's . . . a tribute to Duane Allman:
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Sad news.

Seeing how it is dirt, and is now collapsed and apparently a great deal of information is known about this particular cave, could it no be rebuilt and made more stable discreetly and open to the public? I mean this could be a blessing in disguise.
 
Sad news.

Seeing how it is dirt, and is now collapsed and apparently a great deal of information is known about this particular cave, could it no be rebuilt and made more stable discreetly and open to the public? I mean this could be a blessing in disguise.
The problem is the cave is located on property whose ownership is disputed. That is my understanding. We used to relic hunt in that area when we were kids and there was always confusion who owned it. Unfortunately, we never knew the cave was back there when we hunted. I bet we walked all around it!
 
The problem is the cave is located on property whose ownership is disputed. That is my understanding. We used to relic hunt in that area when we were kids and there was always confusion who owned it. Unfortunately, we never knew the cave was back there when we hunted. I bet we walked all around it!

Well at least I got to see pictures of it at the Park.

Maybe the property dispute could be solved somehow. Heck even if a cave can't be saved or restored, I've always been surprised some enterprising person never built a replica for tourist to pay to go through.

Oh wait, I think I just got inspiration to try to buy property in Vicksburg one day!
 
Well at least I got to see pictures of it at the Park.

Maybe the property dispute could be solved somehow. Heck even if a cave can't be saved or restored, I've always been surprised some enterprising person never built a replica for tourist to pay to go through.

Oh wait, I think I just got inspiration to try to buy property in Vicksburg one day!
Yeah, I’ve thought the same thing. Of course, there’s the liability issue in today’s litigious society, and one would have to carry insurance and permit from the city for a replica cave. But it would certainly be neat and I would suspect it would attract plenty of tourists!
 
Loess soil is remarkably stable, as evidenced by the clean, straight sides to the entrance tunnel in the photograph in post #6. Actually, it does not surprise me that some caves survived this long. There are loess deposits many, many feet deep along the Missouri River bluffs that have been exposed to rain and snow for hundreds of years. Drivers on I-70 between Boonville and Columbia, Missouri can see loess soil faces on top of the bluffs in the notch where the highway crosses the river near Rocheport.
At about any point where the big rivers with a wide river valley is oriented perpendicular to the prevailing winds, generally a north-south axis you might find deep loess deposits on the downwind side of the river valley. There are several square miles/sections of Loess hills just east of the Missouri River in Howard Co. near Glasgow. It is usually yellow in color. The farmers call it 'sugar clay', because it works up quite well and/or is highly tillable. Shallower deposits can be found in most of the Counties bordering the southern edge of the river valley.
 
Yeah, I’ve thought the same thing. Of course, there’s the liability issue in today’s litigious society, and one would have to carry insurance and permit from the city for a replica cave. But it would certainly be neat and I would suspect it would attract plenty of tourists!

Well if property is located in the right spot, cheap enough (shouldn't be too hard to find), a good enough number of firsthand accounts that give a good picture of the layout of different ones, insurance isn't a killer, and taxes ain't a killer, I'd say it could be done.

$5 bucks a head, and a little museum to let tourists go through with good displays, it might could be a great idea.
 
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