The July 3 Assault

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Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Right here.
"They came on at a steady rate of about a hundred yards a minute, and before they had been three minutes in the open--barely clear of the line of friendly guns, whose cannoneers raised their hats in salute and wished them luck as they passed through--the Union batteries, as if in quick recovery from the shock of seeing them appear thus, massed for slaughter, began to roar. The gray lines dribbled rag-doll shapes, each of which left a gap where it had been while still in motion. Flags plunged with sudden flutters in the windless air, only to be taken up at once as the fallen colorbearers were replaced. This happened especially often in the regiments on the flanks, which came under galling long-range fire delivered in enfilade from the two heights, Cemetery Hill on the left and Little Round Top on the right. Pettigrew's troops had farther to go, since they had begun their march from Seminary Ridge itself, but this had been foreseen and allowed for; Pickett had been charged with closing the quarter-mile interval between the two formations, which would lengthen the distance his three brigades would have to cover in the course of their advance. Accordingly, once they were clear of the line of guns, in plain view of the little clump of trees just over half a mile ahead, he gave his troops the order, 'Left oblique!' They obeyed it neatly, executing in midstride a half-face to the north, which, at every full step of their own, brought them a half step closer to the flank of the undeviating marchers on their left. All this time, both groups were taking losses, a more or less steady leakage of killed and wounded, who lay motionless where they fell or turned and hobbled painfully up the slope they had descended." [Shelby Foote, The Civil War: A Narrative, Vol 2, pp. 553-554]

What about it? Was Lee nuts in ordering this assault or did it actually have a pretty good chance? Why?
 
Well, if the distance was closer it might have stood a better chance; as it was he thought he had driven off the Union artillery...Lee seemed to have forgotten about Malvern Hill and Fredericksburg and the lessons those two places should have taught him..Who knows maybe he was just arrogant about the abilities of his troops over "those people".
 
Lee had seen the AoNV acheive victory in overwhelming situations. McCellan in front of Richmond, Hooker in the Wilderness. He used the AoNV to intimidate and roll over both of those generals, Pope and Burnside. He had to have had enormous confidence in the ability of that army. He was probably also hoping to scare Meade, he certainly was able to do with this other generals.
 
Lee had seen the AoNV acheive victory in overwhelming situations. McCellan in front of Richmond, Hooker in the Wilderness. He used the AoNV to intimidate and roll over both of those generals, Pope and Burnside. He had to have had enormous confidence in the ability of that army. He was probably also hoping to scare Meade, he certainly was able to do with this other generals.

It reveals how little respect he paid to the tenacity of his foes, from Army CO all the way down the ranks. Victory disease. He seemed to completely ignore all the disadvantages he was suffering like being outnumbered in disadvantageous terrain with an extremely long LOS and LOC - this after he admitted that 'Meade will make no mistake in our front...'
 
It reveals how little respect he paid to the tenacity of his foes, from Army CO all the way down the ranks. Victory disease. He seemed to completely ignore all the disadvantages he was suffering like being outnumbered in disadvantageous terrain with an extremely long LOS and LOC - this after he admitted that 'Meade will make no mistake in our front...'


I agree. Overly confidant. His target that third day was Cemetary Hill, and he was determined to take that position. At that moment, the position was all that mattered to him. Ignore the disadvantages, ignore the protests for subordinates. Almost like he had tunnel vision and couldn't see the thing clearly, like it was personal.

As far as respect paid to the AoP, wasn't the first time, really.
 
Has anyone gone to where the Virginians formed for the PPT Charge and walked that route? If so, tell me where you were when you became visible to Cemetery Ridge and Little Round Top.
 
I know that when you stand at the point of woods, and to the right, along the woods toward the Spangler farm, especially if you are in the woods or just at the edge, all you can see is the tops of the trees in the Copse. You need to walk up the slight slope at least halfway before you can see ground level on Cemetery Ridge, probably right about where the Confederate cannons were placed.

I haven't ever watched someone making that walk, as I stood at the Angle or LRT, though.
 
A little off the thread, but I have been doing family research and found the brother of my great-great-grandfather was killed in that charge.

LT David Marlin, Co H, 2nd Mississippi Inf, Davis Brigade. He was from Ireland.
 
I walked it 2yrs ago..Starting..... the Union Tubes are just a blur in the distance..you walk down a depression for a number of yds. as you come up the Union line is a little clearer...then you drop again.. Union lines not visable again...as you come up the Rise.. Yankee lines more clearer...drop again and when you come up...There they are...with about 150 to 200 Yds of flat open space.....

But be advised.....An Army training camp was built on those fields.....Tank Corps..as well as a P.O.W. camp for Germans in WW2.. Camp Colt...

A Ranger told me..They tried to landscape it back to what it was in 1863, by using old photos...Is it correct....?????
 
I'd be willing to do this walk if it has some real meaning to you. I would need you to spell out the exact starting point.

The Virginia troops gathered in the vicinity of Spangler Farm. Walking from there, you aren't visible to the Federal positions until you are just coming up on the Emmitsburg Road, which is a far cry from the impression people get by looking across from the North Carolina and Virginia Memorials.
 
The Virginia troops gathered in the vicinity of Spangler Farm. Walking from there, you aren't visible to the Federal positions until you are just coming up on the Emmitsburg Road, which is a far cry from the impression people get by looking across from the North Carolina and Virginia Memorials.

I would agree but larger formations would have been visible during the Confederate advance.... more so depending on the conditions. I have not walked this stretch.... just from the Virginia Monument straight toward the clump of trees both ways. At the Angle I can usually see movement at the Virginia Monument. I'm sure there are blind spots throughout the trek across the field.
 
From the posted description by Shelby Foote, during most of the advance, it was the flanking fire of Union artillery on the right and left of the attack line itself; especially from the two elevations of Cemetary Hill and Little Round Top., that was doing most of the damage, earlyu in the attack.
It seems that it was only in the last hundred yds or so, that the Union Infantry had continuously clear lines of fire.
 
In adition to the artillery and small arns already mentioned there were regiments paralell to the formation pouring enfilading fire from both flanks. At least on the left flank the fire from the 8th Ohio is credited with breaking the North Carolinians up. And a Vermont Regiment (I beleive) on the right.
 
I walked it last Sunday, July 3, from the VA Memorial to the Angle and back. Just north of Spangler Farm, where the right flank of the Virginians started from, is well shielded, but not for all that long, and the field is up and down all over the place anyway. Sometimes the Confeds would be visible, sometimes not. They used the swales to reform their lines. The Emmitsburg Road was sunken in those days, too, so Confeds could hunker down in there and be fairly protected, which is why a lot of them didn't want to leave. Once across the Emmitsburg Road, there was no terrain help for the Confeds - they were out in the open.

I'll try to walk it again tomorrow morning. Bear in mind, the grass is very high now and you can't walk just anywhere you like, there are a couple mowed paths from the VA monument, but you can get out along the Spangler farm lane and at least some of the woodline between it and the VA memorial.
 
I have walked it many times and the swales are a definite plus for the Confed. As state above they could redress their lines in the swales before starting forward again.

It was 13th Vermont that was on their left flank at the copse of trees.

Agree that Lee overestimated his men's ability plus was unaware of the shape of alot of the regiments that he put in. Seems really stupid to put regiments that were shot to pieces the first day in PPT charge. He should have been aware of the shape they were in. It was definitely not Lee's finest hour.
 
I've walked from the Virginia monument to the Spangler farm to the angle. Up and down, over fences, not east by any stretch. Most impressive though, is after you cross the Emmitsburg road and start up the incline to the wall, the exposure to and the feeling of helplessness walking up to the guns and in the field of the small arms fire is incredible.
 
I would agree but larger formations would have been visible during the Confederate advance.... more so depending on the conditions. I have not walked this stretch.... just from the Virginia Monument straight toward the clump of trees both ways. At the Angle I can usually see movement at the Virginia Monument. I'm sure there are blind spots throughout the trek across the field.

I understand what you're saying about larger formations, but from what I saw it would be once they got close to the North Carolinians.

If you go to the Spangler Farm and look around, and compare that view with the view from the Virginia Memorial, it will change your perspective dramatically.

The Emmitsburg Road is actually on a ridge. That's why Sickles thought it was better ground for his troops on July 2. As they came close to the Emmitsburg Road and closer to the North Carolinians the Virginians would begin to become visible to the Federal troops as they ascended that ridge on the opposite side from Cemetery Ridge. The Federal positions on LRT and Cemetery Hill would be the first to see them, of course. But if we consider that Lee's plan was to use his artillery barrage to neutralize the Federal artillery and demoralize the Federal troops, I think we get a better perspective of Lee's plan. We know it failed, looking back. But looking at it from the standpoint of one who hasn't seen the results, the plan looks better and better.
 
From the posted description by Shelby Foote, during most of the advance, it was the flanking fire of Union artillery on the right and left of the attack line itself; especially from the two elevations of Cemetary Hill and Little Round Top., that was doing most of the damage, earlyu in the attack.
It seems that it was only in the last hundred yds or so, that the Union Infantry had continuously clear lines of fire.

They would certainly have seen the North Carolinians, but they wouldn't have seen the Virginians until they were almost up on the Emmitsburg Road.
 
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