The Death of Bill Anderson

This is interesting stuff and sadly most of what I know of it comes from watching "ride with the devil". Do you gentlemen/ladies have a book preference on Bill Anderson and the war in MO?

I'm reading, for the third time,,

"Bushwhackers: Guerrilla Warfare, Manhood, and the Household in Civil War Missouri"
by Joseph M Beilein, Jr.

Of all the books I've read on the guerrilla war in Missouri, and I think I've read most of them, it's been the most informative and eye opening for me. I can't recommend any othe book higher. Maybe one should read "Ride With the Devil" first to understand the timeline of history, then read "Bushwhackers" to understand what made them tick.

I can't recommend "Bushwhackers" highly enough
 
Someone posted earlier on this thread the connection Pres. Harry Truman has with the guerrillas. I'm sorry I can't find that post or I would give you credit.

President Truman's ancestor who's name appears on at least one of Quatrill's roster is that of J. "Jim Crow" Chiles, who is the husband of Pres. Truman's mothers sister. So he is the presidents uncle.

As I said I've found his name on a Quatrill roster, but I don't find much information about his war-time activities other than these two instances;

At the time that Bloody Bill was killed, Jim Crow Chiles was also in the attack and had a horse killed from under him.
And
In the winter 1863/1864 Anderson wintered in and around Sherman, TX, were he happened to meet his wife, a Ms. Bush Smith. There are a number of stories about what she did for a living, and one of them is that she worked in a saloon owned by--- a Mr. Jim Crow Chiles.

After the war Mr Chiles name come up twice;
The first is that sometime after 1867, Mr. Chiles killed a Mr. Payne Jones (who was also a Quantrill man), for reasons unknown. In 1867, Mr. Jones, along with other ex-"Partisan Rangers" robbed the Huges and Wesson Bank of Richmond, MO.

The second case deals with the death of Mr. Jim Crow Chiles. On Sept. 21, 1873, Chiles was shot and killed by the Marshall of Independence, MO., James Peacock. On that same day, and perhaps at the same time, the son of Mr. Peacock, Charles, shot and killed the son of Jim Crow Chiles, Elijah.

A reporter once asked Pres. Truman about the shooting of his Uncle, and Truman's reply was "The family doesn't know anything about it," which sounds like another way of saying, "It's none of your d---d business."
 
Booner recommended the "Bushwhackers: Guerrilla Warfare, Manhood, and the Household in Civil War Missouri" to me several weeks ago. I recommend it as highly as he does. It explains SO much. It will not be the sort of in depth biography or analysis of Bill Anderson that some folks hope to find, but it gives such a detailed analysis of Missouri's guerrilla war. Note to all: In this case, what applied in Missouri might or might not in other states. This book is an analysis of the deep family and kinship ties that connected the guerrillas. Two family lines are analyzed in this book. Utterly fascinating!
 
I think our friend, William H, deserves a better to his specific question about Anderson. I can't recommend a book specifically about Anderson. There might be one out there, but I am unaware of it. Bill Anderson was a bit of an anomaly. He was almost certainly a hothead when he went into Quantrill's band. After his little sister was killed and another injured in the collapse of the improvised Kansas City prison for the guerrilla's women folk, I believe Anderson became almost insanely motivated towards revenge.

William Gregg (one of Quantrill's most trusted lieutenants) said that Anderson rode into combat frothing at the mouth! That's an eyewitness account, and not just the opinion of a later historian trying to demonize him. But, trust me, historians will usually miss no opportunity to demonize him.

You might enjoy reading a transcript of the Gregg Manuscript, right here:

http://penningtons.tripod.com/charleythehorse2665-2.html#6
 
Mrs. Bush Smith. Is she related in anyway way to the other Bushs of tx? If so truman is a relative of bush. Probably not but enough of the presidents are related.
Booner, are you reading?

Our friend, Booner, is working on a complicated spreadsheet showing the complex family relationships of the bushwhackers descended from the Fristoe family (there are at least 50 of them among Quantrill's men and probably many more). We know that Harry Truman's uncle by marriage was Jim Crow Chiles. We will have to wait and see if Booner can relate any info on the Bush family of Texas.
 
Mrs. Bush Smith. Is she related in anyway way to the other Bushs of tx? If so truman is a relative of bush. Probably not but enough of the presidents are related.

In checking the Truman ancestry. there is no direct relationship between the Truman's and Bush's. However, Pres. Obama is related to both of them, so do you call the Bush's and Truman shirt-tailed relatives?

And Mrs. Anderson,,,,,,,,,
There's a lot of confusion over her. ( as with everything concerning Blood Bill). I don't remember her background, and certainly some authors have claimed that she was a "working Girl" at a saloon. But her last name I think was Bush, but her parents died and she was adapted by the Smith family: that's one of the stories, I think. Another one is that Bloody Bill's brother Jim married her after the war, but that story has gotten confused with one of Bloody Bill's sisters who went to TX after the war and married someone by the name of Smith or Bush. It all gets very confusing.

Which brings up a good point about reading stories about Bloody Bill, Quantrill, and the rest of the guerrilla's. So much of the history has been written with a partisan view, especially the early works, that in order to "flesh out" what really happened, or, at best, what most likely happened, you have to read several sources, and then come to your own conclutions.. It is a fascinating history, and in the last few years a more fair and balance narrative has come out, one that tells what motivated them to do what they did. It was an utterly frightful period of time to be living in, and these men/boys coped with it the best they could. You have to understand the back story of what went on, both during the war and after.

When ever the topic of Quantrill comes up, it never fails that someone will respond with something along the lines, "He was a murderer and a thief and got exactly what he deserved!" My first two thoughts when I see that are: A. "You must be from Kansas", and B. "Where did you get your information?'' I used to think the same about him, but over the years my view on him and most of the other guerrillas has changed. They were men of their times, and the times then wasn't good.
 
And as far as the spreadsheet goes, I'm in the middle of the 'M's" and at over 300 names. How well versed are you with Excel? I can see different ways to manipulate the data which will give a clearer idea about who these men were and how they were organized; things of this nature, but it's been a long time that I've worked w/Excel.

And then I thought when I get this done, I need to move over the the Jawhawk and redleg side, (which will not be easy on so many different levels).
 
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In checking the Truman ancestry. there is no direct relationship between the Truman's and Bush's. However, Pres. Obama is related to both of them, so do you call the Bush's and Truman shirt-tailed relatives?

And Mrs. Anderson,,,,,,,,,
There's a lot of confusion over her. ( as with everything concerning Blood Bill). I don't remember her background, and certainly some authors have claimed that she was a "working Girl" at a saloon. But her last name I think was Bush, but her parents died and she was adapted by the Smith family: that's one of the stories, I think. Another one is that Bloody Bill's brother Jim married her after the war, but that story has gotten confused with one of Bloody Bill's sisters who went to TX after the war and married someone by the name of Smith or Bush. It all gets very confusing.

Which brings up a good point about reading stories about Bloody Bill, Quantrill, and the rest of the guerrilla's. So much of the history has been written with a partisan view, especially the early works, that in order to "flesh out" what really happened, or, at best, what most likely happened, you have to read several sources, and then come to your own conclutions.. It is a fascinating history, and in the last few years a more fair and balance narrative has come out, one that tells what motivated them to do what they did. It was an utterly frightful period of time to be living in, and these men/boys coped with it the best they could. You have to understand the back story of what went on, both during the war and after.

When ever the topic of Quantrill comes up, it never fails that someone will respond with something along the lines, "He was a murderer and a thief and got exactly what he deserved!" My first two thoughts when I see that are: A. "You must be from Kansas", and B. "Where did you get your information?'' I used to think the same about him, but over the years my view on him and most of the other guerrillas has changed. They were men of their times, and the times then wasn't good.
And my view has changed right along with yours. They were neither universal demons, nor universal heroes. They were individuals, and they deserve to be judged individually. That is something beyond the ability of those persons whose closed minds are already decided.
 
In Lee's defence Lee wanted to disband all irreulars except O'Neal and Mosby's groups.Unknown if he wanted any Confederate guerrillas punished.
Leftyhunter
I wonder if the Missouri Red Leggs would have been on the same level of Anderson or if they were like Mosby. The movie "The Outlaw Josie Wells" showed them to be in the same as Anderson.Then there is also the Jayhawks from Kansas.noted for their tactful treatment of civilian population of both Kansas and Missouri.History of Union irreulars has been betrayed as noble fighters protecting the home from,wearing the uniform of the Union cavalry .There in no such word as civilized when irregulars forces are used,either independent or attached to regular forces.
 
I wonder if the Missouri Red Leggs would have been on the same level of Anderson or if they were like Mosby. The movie "The Outlaw Josie Wells" showed them to be in the same as Anderson.Then there is also the Jayhawks from Kansas.noted for their tactful treatment of civilian population of both Kansas and Missouri.History of Union irreulars has been betrayed as noble fighters protecting the home from,wearing the uniform of the Union cavalry .There in no such word as civilized when irregulars forces are used,either independent or attached to regular forces.

While I'll agree with most of what you have said, I'll have to strongly disagree with your term "Missouri Red Leggs" I have never seen it before; it's always been "Kansas Red Legs," (and in some cases it's been "G-d- Red Legs, as everyone knew they were from Kansas). The Red Legs were a special group of Jay hawkers and both were from Kansas. (Although there were some men from Missouri who joined both groups, but no one knows their name, or cares about them).

Just giving you a hard time, no offence meant.
 
I wonder if the Missouri Red Leggs would have been on the same level of Anderson or if they were like Mosby. The movie "The Outlaw Josie Wells" showed them to be in the same as Anderson.Then there is also the Jayhawks from Kansas.noted for their tactful treatment of civilian population of both Kansas and Missouri.History of Union irreulars has been betrayed as noble fighters protecting the home from,wearing the uniform of the Union cavalry .There in no such word as civilized when irregulars forces are used,either independent or attached to regular forces.
From what I have read on Mosby , Mosby did not harm civilians . On the other hand Mosby was the proverbial fish in the sea of people. Both the Red Legs and Anderson's men were very eager to harm civilians that they viewed as hostiles
So far I have not seen evidence of the Red Legs shooting down young boys in cold blood as did Anderson at Lawrence, Kn or shooting wounded soldiers in cold blood as Anderson's men did a Centralia. Maybe @Booner or @Patrick H can provide examples.
Has I noted in my thread"Compare and Contrast Union vs Confederate Counter Guerrilla Operations" neither side had a COIN warfare doctrine. The first U.S. military manual on COIN war "the USMC Small Wars Manual" was not published until 1940.
Were Union militia noble fighters against CSA guerrillas? That is a political question it depends on who's side one is on. The old Irish chestnut "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" applies. Has I also noted on that thread even in modern COIN war local militia has to be used and training and discipline is not always going to be ideal.
Based on my research that I have posted in various threads such has Union vs CSA guerrilla" there is no evidence that Confederate militias or COIN war was anymore humane or arguably even worse then Union militias in terms of human rights violations.
Has far as the historical accuracy of the movie "the Outlaw Josey Wales" from what I gather it has some true elements and is not really an attempt to create a historical documentary.
Leftyhunter
 
I wonder if the Missouri Red Leggs would have been on the same level of Anderson or if they were like Mosby. The movie "The Outlaw Josie Wells" showed them to be in the same as Anderson.Then there is also the Jayhawks from Kansas.noted for their tactful treatment of civilian population of both Kansas and Missouri.History of Union irreulars has been betrayed as noble fighters protecting the home from,wearing the uniform of the Union cavalry .There in no such word as civilized when irregulars forces are used,either independent or attached to regular forces.
Good point that @Booner makes in that Red legs are from Kn, I overlooked that. Not that some Union Mo units were not above dishing out what the CSA guerrillas gave them. No way around it in Insurgent warfare there is a lot of tit for tat . That's just how the game is played.
Leftyhunter
 
You can't pick your ancestors. I knew a young lady in college who was directly related to Sam Hildebrand. She knew all about him. A good friend in my classes and the in the same major, was descended from Dave Poole's brother. My best friend's ancestor was killed by Guerillas. His crime being a German farmer, in the wrong place and at the wrong time. I am related three Mo. Guerillas myself. I knew a Missouri Civil War reenactor that was related to a Missouri Confederate Guerilla and had his pistols. Good or bad, who you are related too. My ancestors did what they did and paid for it sooner or later. It was a bloody war, and a violent time to be a Missourian. Being neutral was not an option.
 
I was watching a documentary last night and they briefly mentioned an American unit, apparently this unit would slip in behind enemy lines and if for example they found two sleeping Germans they would silently kill one of them and leave the other alive, they would paste a sticker (calling card) to the dead soldiers forehead. The impact that this unit had on the psychology of their enemy was massive. I can only imagine the terror experienced by the surviving soldier, he wakes up and realises that it could have been him. I wish I could remember the name of the Unit, they would black their faces, apparently the Germans thought they were being attacked by black soldiers, whoever this unit was, they were feared big time.
Waterloo50, I was reading through this entire thread again in preparation to bump it back up next week as the anniversary of Anderson's death comes around. I realize that you asked a question that went unanswered. So I'll bump the thread up again to answer you (and I guess get the pot stirred again). The unit in the documentary you watched was a joint force of Canadian and US commandos. It was called the First Special Service Force. It came to be known as the Devil's Brigade. During the battle of Anzio, they did sneak out on night patrols to silently kill Germans, leaving stickers on the bodies. The stickers were printed in the German language, but said: "The worst is yet to come". Yes, the psychological effect was terrifying.
 
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Patrick, one account that I read said that the soldiers had removed some bricks and posts at the jail to make easier access to some "ladies" who had taken up residence next door. That struck me as probably a truth that no one really wanted to publicize much as it would have made the girls' deaths seem less like martyrs for the one side, and the Union soldiers to seem not only culpable but quite dishonorable for the other.
Hi, 18th. I was going through this thread in anticipation of bumping it next week on the anniversary of Anderson's death. I saw my previous response to your post and I wanted to say a bit more about it. The jail collapse will forever be controversial and there were a lot of excuses offered for what happened. I don't think we'll ever know the truth of it. Some of the explanations or accusations I've read include:

1. The girls themselves were trying to tunnel out of their jail. This seems highly unlikely to me, as there was a store at ground level and the soldier billets below that. The girls were housed on the second or third floors.

2. The soldiers opened part of the foundation to gain access to the cellar of a brothel next door. This corresponds to the piece you read and it seems plausible to me.

3. Free roaming hogs were rooting around the base of the building and weakened the foundation. This is possible, especially if the soldiers were throwing out garbage for them.

4. Soldiers removed some support posts, as I previously mentioned. This seems plausible, too.

Information that is new to me since last year:

5. Bingham added a third story to the building to use as a studio. The foundation was not sufficient for this added weight.

My conclusion: A combination of several of these things led to the collapse. The collapse was feared and expected by the shopkeeper whose store was on the ground floor. Walls were bowing and floors were sagging. He complained to Gen. Ewing and he moved his inventory out of the building. Obviously, Ewing had time to move the girls out, too, and put his soldiers to work repairing their own damage, but he didn't do it. Therefore, I stand by my contention that Ewing was criminally negligent. I don't believe the girls were deliberately murdered, but they did suffer because of criminal negligence.

I suspect, but I can't prove, that Anderson and his company were responsible for most of the excesses at Lawrence. I'm
satisfied that Anderson was a whacko--if not before his sister's death, then certainly afterwards.
 
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