The Crisis of Sumter

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Seems to me that the first clear cut violation of Kentucky's so-called "neautrality" was the presence of US post offices throughout the state and the existence of a US courthouse in Frankfort. I even hear that the legislators swore to uphold the US Constitution. They actually had the audacity to fly an US flag at the statehouse in Kentucky. GASP!!!
Oh, the outrages!
 

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There are posters who like to pretend that they did.
Report of Commander R. N. Stembel, U. S. Navy.
U.S. GUNBOAT LEXINGTON,
Cairo, August 22, 1861

Colonel OGLESBY,
Commander Military Post, Cairo, Ill.

COLONEL: Agreeably to your verbal order, communicated to me at midnight of the 21st instant, I got under way, and proceeded to Paducah, Ky., where I arrived at 7.03 a.m. The gentleman you placed on board to designate the steamer employed in the rebel trade and carrying their flag pointed out the W. B. Terry as being the vessel thus illegally engaged. I ran alongside of her, cut her out, made her fast to the Lexington, and immediately returned to this anchorage and placed her in your possession. I was not opposed in the performance of this duty by either the citizens of Paducah or the officers and crew of the Terry, for the latter, evidently suspecting my object, left the boat hastily, with such articles of clothing as were at hand. I was therefore unsuccessful in capturing any of them.
Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
R. N. STEMBEL,
Commander, U. S. Navy.
 
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So you deny the existence of Camp Dick Robinson?
Established by loyalist Kentuckians for loyal Kentuckians in Kentucky? Why is that a violation of neutrality? Lincoln himself recognized them as 'indiginous forces' and exercised no authority over them prior to the rebel invasion.
 
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Established by loyalist Kentuckians for loyal Kentuckians in Kentucky? Why is that a violation of neutrality? Lincoln himself recognized them as 'indiginous forces' and exercised no authority over them prior to the rebel invasion.
1st Regiment, Tennessee Infantry (Union)
Organized at Camp Dick Robinson, Kentucky, August and September, 1861.
Mustered out August 8,1865.
 

wilber6150

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There are posters that don't want to hear that Federals did it first.

Prior to Grant entering Kentucky:

The first clear cut violation of Kentucky's neutrality was the establishment of Camp Dick Robinson. A Federal training camp for Tennessee and Kentucky recruits, in August 1861. The pro-southern Kentuckians trained in Tennessee.

There are reports of Federals entering Kentucky from Cairo, and seizing groups of recruits headed south.

A Union gunboat entered Paducah's harbor.
Those training camps were set up by loyal citizens of Kentucky, not by out of state forces...
 

wilber6150

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The Confederates would have been remiss had they not responded to Grant’s threat to Paducah.

“Columbus again became the center of national attention in the opening months of the Civil War. The town had the distinction of being the opening phase of the Federal campaign to secure the West. On September 1, 1861, General Ulysses S. Grant, commander of the Union District of Southeast Missouri, secured Cairo, Ill. and Paducah. His forces then moved on to take the high ground around Columbus.”


"The worst fears of those Boys in Gray are now a fact of American life -- a Federal government completely out of control."

Professor Jay Hoar, University of Maine at Farmington (retired)
Intersting that only the Confederates were told to leave by the state legislature...
 

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So they invaded the state in order to protect it?
The Confederate States recognized Kentucky as a Confederate state; they cared less what a pro- union legislature thought. Both Kentucky and Missouri had stars on the Confederate Flag.

"But Quantrill and his men were no more bandits than the men on the other side. I've been to reunions of Quantrill's men two or three times. All they were trying to do was protect the property on the Missouri side of the line."

President Harry S. Truman
member of the Sons of confederate veterans
 
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The Confederate States recognized Kentucky as a Confederate state; they cared less what a pro- union legislature thought. Both Kentucky and Missouri had stars on the Confederate Flag.

"But Quantrill and his men were no more bandits than the men on the other side. I've been to reunions of Quantrill's men two or three times. All they were trying to do was protect the property on the Missouri side of the line."

President Harry S. Truman
member of the Sons of confederate veterans
But that recognition was a pipe dream. Neither Kentucky nor Missouri had pro-secession majorities. At best, they could be called "contested" but in no way were either one Confederate states regardless of what the Confederate government believed.

R
 
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It was a Union recruiting camp, under command of a Union officer, and Tennesseans were training there with those Kentuckians, in violation of Kentucky's neutrality.
OK, I'm curious.
Has it ever been possible to be neutral in a civil war?
Under what conditions does someone from one state, training in another, constitute a violation?
I.E. was there a Kentucky law forbidding people from other states voluntarily mustering with KY militia?
Was there a Kentucky law, superseding federal law that made such a thing illegal.

I'm not saying there wasn't, but if there was, it would be pretty interesting to look into.
 
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OK, I'm curious.
Has it ever been possible to be neutral in a civil war?
Under what conditions does someone from one state, training in another, constitute a violation?
I.E. was there a Kentucky law forbidding people from other states voluntarily mustering with KY militia?
Was there a Kentucky law, superseding federal law that made such a thing illegal.

I'm not saying there wasn't, but if there was, it would be pretty interesting to look into.
To me it's just a silly side argument of little importance, other than learning a little something.
 
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The Confederate States recognized Kentucky as a Confederate state; they cared less what a pro- union legislature thought. Both Kentucky and Missouri had stars on the Confederate Flag.
So why did they have to invade it? Were they just trying to shake loose some congressmen and senators to come on down to Richmond?
 
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It was a Union recruiting camp, under command of a Union officer, and Tennesseans were training there with those Kentuckians, in violation of Kentucky's neutrality.
Who was getting his men from Kentucky, his supplies from Kentucky, and training them to defend Kentucky. Defend her, as it turned out, from invasion from Confederate troops.
 

wilber6150

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It was a Union recruiting camp, under command of a Union officer, and Tennesseans were training there with those Kentuckians, in violation of Kentucky's neutrality.
Were the Tennesseans reciving pay from Kentucky, if not they were just private citizens receiving training, and not officially part of Kentucky.. I beleve there were Confederate training camps as well for citizens supporting the seceeded states..
 

wilber6150

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So why did they have to invade it? Were they just trying to shake loose some congressmen and senators to come on down to Richmond?
The Confederate States recognized Kentucky as a Confederate state; they cared less what a pro- union legislature thought. Both Kentucky and Missouri had stars on the Confederate Flag.

"But Quantrill and his men were no more bandits than the men on the other side. I've been to reunions of Quantrill's men two or three times. All they were trying to do was protect the property on the Missouri side of the line."

President Harry S. Truman
member of the Sons of confederate veterans
So the Confederacy considered Kentucky theirs and didn't care what the state legislature thought and sent troops to make it happen against the states wishes..Wouldn't that be the definition of coercion?
 
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Who was getting his men from Kentucky, his supplies from Kentucky, and training them to defend Kentucky. Defend her, as it turned out, from invasion from Confederate troops.
Do you have any evidence supporting your statements. Insistence isn't evidence.

This is the original plan to violate Kentucky's neutrality. Notice they are to march through Kentucky into Tennessee:
UNION CORRESPONDENCE.

{p.251}
ADJUTANT-GENERAL’S OFFICE, Washington, D. C., July 1, 1861.
Lieut. WILLIAM NELSON, U. S. N., Cincinnati, Ohio:
SIR: Your services having been placed at the disposal of the War Department for the performance of a special duty, the Secretary of War directs me to communicate to you the following instructions:
It being the fixed purpose of the General Government to maintain the Constitution and execute the laws of the Union and to protect all loyal citizens in their constitutional rights, the Secretary directs that you muster into the service of the United States five regiments of infantry and one regiment of cavalry in East Tennessee, and one regiment of infantry in West Tennessee, to receive pay when called into active service by this Department. You will designate the regimental and company officers, having due respect for the preferences of the regiments {p.252} and companies, and send their names to this office for commission. The Ordnance Bureau will forward to Cincinnati, Ohio, 10,000 stands of arms and accouterments, six pieces of field artillery, two smooth and two rifle bore cannon, and two mountain howitzers, and ample supplies of ammunition, to be carried thence through Kentucky into East Tennessee, in such manner as you may direct, for distribution among the men so mustered into service and men organized as Union Home Guards. You will also, at the same time, muster into the service, or designate some suitable person so to do, in Southeast Kentucky, three regiments of infantry, to be commanded and officered in the same manner as herein provided for the Tennessee regiments.
All of the regiments aforesaid will be raised for service in East and West Tennessee and adjacent counties and in East Kentucky. Blank muster rolls and the usual instructions to mustering officers will be sent to you from this office, and in carrying out this order you are authorized to employ such service and use such means as you may deem expedient and proper for its faithful execution. You will likewise report frequently to this office as you progress with your work.
I am, sir, &c.,
L. THOMAS, Adjutant-General.
 
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Were the Tennesseans reciving pay from Kentucky, if not they were just private citizens receiving training, and not officially part of Kentucky.. I beleve there were Confederate training camps as well for citizens supporting the seceeded states..
See my response to KeyserSoze. The Tennesseans were mustered into United States service.
 

wilber6150

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COLUMBUS, KY., September 9, 1861
To Major-General POLK, Commanding Confederate Forces, &c.:
SIR: I have the honor to inclose herewith a resolution of the Senate of Kentucky adopted by that body upon the reception of intelligence of military occupation of Hickman, Chalk Bank, and Columbus by the Confederate troops under your command.* I need not say that the people of Kentucky are profoundly astonished that such an act should have been committed by the Confederate States, and especially that they should have been the first to do so with an equipped and regularly organized army.
The people of Kentucky having with great unaminity determined upon a position of neutrality in the unhappy war none being waged, and which they had tried in vain to prevent, had hoped that one place at least in this great nation might remain uninvited by passion and through whose good offices something might be done to end the war of
at least to mitigate its horrors, or, if this were not possible, that she might be left to choose her destiny without disturbance from any quarter.
In obedience to the thrice repeated will of the people, as expressed at the polls and in their name I ask you to withdraw your forces from the soil of Kentucky.
I will say in conclusion that all the people of the State await in deep suspense your action in the premises.
I have the honor to be, your obedient servant,
JOHN M. JOHNSTON, Chairman of Committee.
 



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