Restricted Debate The creation of West Virginia


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leftyhunter

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Post the case law source then.
I was referring to the fact that the Federal courts had been in existence for 80 odd years and already had an extensive body of case law. The 19 th Century US Supreme Court case confirming the lawful formation of West Virginia has already been cited earlier in this thread by @jgoodguy.
Leftyhunter
 

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Post the case law source then.
Edited
I'm certainly not an attorney but it seems to me that common sense says you can't have your cake and eat it too. If Virginia seceded from the United States, then they gave up their rights in their old state and had no more say in any matter concerning Virginia as a US state. How can one argue that Virginia decided to secede yet still use US law as a basis to argue that the new state of West Virginia was not legally able to speak for the old state? It seems to me "old Virginia" would have had to have won the war for any legitimacy.
Conversely, if secession of Virginia was illegal according to US law how could the secession of north-western Virginia comply with the same US law? It appears the US government was making law to suit its puposes.
 
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jgoodguy

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The right of conquest must in the US Contitutional must


Conversely, if secession of Virginia was illegal according to US law how could the secession of north-western Virginia comply with the same US law? It appears the US government was making law to suit its puposes.
Because West VA seceded from the CSA where secession was legal.
 

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Not true the Constitution was already written. There were already 80 odd year's of case law.
Leftyhunter
Or was as Thadeus Stevens proclaimed: "It was proposed to admit her upon the ground that Old Virginia had given her consent, and that new West Virginia should come in with that consent. I expressly said that I hoped nobody would consider me so ignorant as to suppose that Virginia was divided according to the principles of the Constitution ; but that West Virginia, being conquered by our armies, according to the laws of war we had a right to do with the conquered territory just as we pleased [applause] ; and I voted for her admission, disclaiming the idea that the division was according to the forms of the Constitution, but under the laws of war and the laws of conquest."

See post #37.
 

19thGeorgia

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Edited


Conversely, if secession of Virginia was illegal according to US law how could the secession of north-western Virginia comply with the same US law? It appears the US government was making law to suit its puposes.
Right. The conditions for the formation of a new state as described in the US Constitution did not exist in 1863.
 

jgoodguy

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Or was as Thadeus Stevens proclaimed: "It was proposed to admit her upon the ground that Old Virginia had given her consent, and that new West Virginia should come in with that consent. I expressly said that I hoped nobody would consider me so ignorant as to suppose that Virginia was divided according to the principles of the Constitution ; but that West Virginia, being conquered by our armies, according to the laws of war we had a right to do with the conquered territory just as we pleased [applause] ; and I voted for her admission, disclaiming the idea that the division was according to the forms of the Constitution, but under the laws of war and the laws of conquest."

See post #37.
Was this Mr. Stevens on a court?
 

leftyhunter

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Or was as Thadeus Stevens proclaimed: "It was proposed to admit her upon the ground that Old Virginia had given her consent, and that new West Virginia should come in with that consent. I expressly said that I hoped nobody would consider me so ignorant as to suppose that Virginia was divided according to the principles of the Constitution ; but that West Virginia, being conquered by our armies, according to the laws of war we had a right to do with the conquered territory just as we pleased [applause] ; and I voted for her admission, disclaiming the idea that the division was according to the forms of the Constitution, but under the laws of war and the laws of conquest."

See post #37.
That is Steven's s opinion but in point of fact the Supreme Court had no issues with the formation of the state of West Virginia. Only the federal courts are competent to decide if a law is constitutional or not. The remedy to a faulty court ruling is depending on the circumstances a new law, a constitutional amendment or in rare cases the US Supreme Court will reconsider a past decision.
Leftyhunter
 

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That is Steven's s opinion but in point of fact the Supreme Court had no issues with the formation of the state of West Virginia. Only the federal courts are competent to decide if a law is constitutional or not. The remedy to a faulty court ruling is depending on the circumstances a new law, a constitutional amendment or in rare cases the US Supreme Court will reconsider a past decision.
Leftyhunter
But did have a problem with the secession of the eleven Southern States.
That is Steven's s opinion but in point of fact the Supreme Court had no issues with the formation of the state of West Virginia. Only the federal courts are competent to decide if a law is constitutional or not. The remedy to a faulty court ruling is depending on the circumstances a new law, a constitutional amendment or in rare cases the US Supreme Court will reconsider a past decision.
Leftyhunter
Thus spake the oligarchs who supposedly found something in their constitution forbidding the secession of eleven Southern Staes.
 

NedBaldwin

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Edited


Conversely, if secession of Virginia was illegal according to US law how could the secession of north-western Virginia comply with the same US law? It appears the US government was making law to suit its puposes.
The answer is so obvious.
Virginia attempted to seceded from US, north-western Virginia did not attempt to secede from the US
 


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