The creation of West Virginia

Pat Young

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#61
IMHO the use of 'legal fiction' is a problem. We have Luther v Borden and Texas v White ruling that Congress gets to recognized States' governments with the SCOTUS decisions upholding the creation of West Virginia suggesting something different.
It comes down to this, doesn't it?

For the next decade the governments of all of the so-called Confederate states would have, at one point or another, state governments that conformed to Congressional requirements rather than to the wishes of the formerly whites-only pro-Confederate electorates. These Reconstruction state governments were able to enact laws, carry on the administration of government, and enter into contracts and those actions have never been overturned in the courts on the basis of the illegitimacy of the Reconstruction government.

What would the alternative for Congress have been in 1862? To recognize that the Richmond government was the legitimate authority in Virginia? To petition that Richmond government for permission to split the state?
 

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jgoodguy

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#62
It comes down to this, doesn't it?

For the next decade the governments of all of the so-called Confederate states would have, at one point or another, state governments that conformed to Congressional requirements rather than to the wishes of the formerly whites-only pro-Confederate electorates. These Reconstruction state governments were able to enact laws, carry on the administration of government, and enter into contracts and those actions have never been overturned in the courts on the basis of the illegitimacy of the Reconstruction government.

What would the alternative for Congress have been in 1862? To recognize that the Richmond government was the legitimate authority in Virginia? To petition that Richmond government for permission to split the state?
I agree.
 
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#63
Here in Jefferson county there was dubious voting for annexation into West Va only 250 voted (1860 election had 1857 voters) there were only 2 polling places Harpers Ferry- Shepherdstown, little or no effort was made to give voters notice, oath of allegiance was reguired to be taken, and under Union military rule few people could travel to the polls, only 2 votes were not in favor of annexation. Jefferson also was also the only county that had not been exempted from the EP
 
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#65
@Eric Wittenberg or anyone else that could answer, after the war, once Virginia was re-admitted as a state, if this action could be found as unconstitutional, could the state of Virginia apply for the return of her 'lost' property or at least restitution for her loss?
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USS ALASKA
For Jefferson county twice. Also I think Berkeley county. If you have time check out West Virginia the other history
 

jgoodguy

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#66
@Eric Wittenberg or anyone else that could answer, after the war, once Virginia was re-admitted as a state, if this action could be found as unconstitutional, could the state of Virginia apply for the return of her 'lost' property or at least restitution for her loss?
549

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USS ALASKA
Had it been found unconstitutional, then the creation of West Virginia would have been voided. However

Virginia v. West Virginia

78 U.S. (11 Wall.) 39 (1871), is a 6-to-3 ruling by the Supreme Court of the United States which held that where a governor has discretion in the conduct of the election, the legislature is bound by his action and cannot undo the results based on fraud. The Court implicitly affirmed that the breakaway Virginia counties had received the necessary consent of both the State of Virginia and the United States Congress to become a separate state, and explicitly held that the counties of Berkeleyand Jefferson were part of the new state of West Virginia.​
 

Eric Wittenberg

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#67
@Eric Wittenberg or anyone else that could answer, after the war, once Virginia was re-admitted as a state, if this action could be found as unconstitutional, could the state of Virginia apply for the return of her 'lost' property or at least restitution for her loss?
549

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USS ALASKA
It did. In 1866, it filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court of the United States to have two counties returned. The Supreme Court, with Salmon P. Chase as chief justice, ruled against it. I included the decision in this thread.
 

Eric Wittenberg

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#68
Regretabily I see this as having little value as evidence. It is an unofficial comment, not an official statement, court decision or law nor does Lincoln imply or directly say it was illegal or unconstitutional, just unusual.
It wasn't meant to be offered as "evidence," Jim. It was offered to show Lincoln's state of mind as to why he was leaning toward signing the bill into law.
 

USS ALASKA

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#69
It did. In 1866, it filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court of the United States to have two counties returned. The Supreme Court, with Salmon P. Chase as chief justice, ruled against it. I included the decision in this thread.
Yes sir - I read your post on that. My question was more of a 'what if' with the Commonwealth of Virginia going after the return of the whole of West Virginia, (or compensation), if the formation of that state was found to be unconstitutional ...didn't mean to clutter up your thread and take it off in another trajectory. Since it was never found to be unconstitutional, then the question is moot.

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 
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#70
Things get pretty messed up when someone wants to invalidate a national election. Its likely that some people in West Virginia felt aggrieved by the creation of the state. Lots of people were aggrieved by Confederate actions, also. The fact that some people felt aggrieved is relevant, but not decisive.
If it were the controlling fact, the northern families that lost family members would have become the owners, along with the freed slaves, of large sections of valuable southern land.
 

Rio Bravo

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#71
If you go to Gettysburg & look at the list of Soldiers,by State, that fought on either side, it says that WV had NO TROOPS fighting for the South. This cannot be true ! All of the troops that were mustered in the Eastern Panhandle ( Northern Shenandoah Valley ), fought for the AONV. They conveniently ignore them, since they were Virginians at the time they signed up, but were made reluctant West Virginians halfway through !
 

USS ALASKA

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#72
If you go to Gettysburg & look at the list of Soldiers,by State, that fought on either side, it says that WV had NO TROOPS fighting for the South.
Sir, since the Confederacy did not recognize the formation of West Virginia, could those soldiers be included under the Virginia rolls?
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USS ALASKA
 

Eric Wittenberg

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#74
Sir, since the Confederacy did not recognize the formation of West Virginia, could those soldiers be included under the Virginia rolls?
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USS ALASKA
That is precisely the case. Most of John. D. Imboden's Brigade--called the Northwestern Brigade--were from what is today West Virginia. So, too. were the regiments of Albert G. Jenkins' Brigade. All were designated as Virginia cavalry regiments.
 

Gandycreek

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#75
The subject is one which has been of interest to me for a long time. A number of my ancestor's were from Marshall County in the western panhandle and served in the 3rd West Virginia Mounted Infantry, which morphed into the 6th West Virginia Cavalry. Agree with a good number of the posters that the issue was unconstitutional, but expedient. In much the same way Nevada was admitted just in time for the 1864 presidential election by creative means that were also expedient. I'm looking forward to your final product.
I think you mean the "northern panhandle". That is where Marshall county is located and where I live.
 
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#76
Here in Jefferson county the Stonewall Brigade :2nd Va companys A Charlestown,B Sheperhdstown,G Charlestown,H duffields,K Harpers Ferry. Cavalry: 1st va company F Shepherdstown--12th VA company A Charlestown, company B, and company D Molers Cross Roads. Last but not lest Chew's Famous horse battery was mostly raised here in Jefferson county
 
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#78
If you go to Gettysburg & look at the list of Soldiers,by State, that fought on either side, it says that WV had NO TROOPS fighting for the South. This cannot be true ! All of the troops that were mustered in the Eastern Panhandle ( Northern Shenandoah Valley ), fought for the AONV. They conveniently ignore them, since they were Virginians at the time they signed up, but were made reluctant West Virginians halfway through !
Here I'm still a reluctant West Virginian
 



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