"The Civil War was not between the North and the South."

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#1
"The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army. There were perhaps as many as 300,000 southerners in the Union Army, mostly from the Appalachians from West Virginia to North Alabama." This is a quote for a book I got for Christmas about Winston County Alabama. My Martin and Tidwell kin live up in there. Can anyone confirm this number?

There is a statue at the county court house commemorating the 200+ Union soldiers and 100+ Confederate soldiers from Winston County who fought in the war.

dual-destiny-sculpture-representing-the-division-of-the-civil-war-768x766.jpg
 

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#4
Many boilermakers from the Birmingham and Muscle Shoals locals came up and worked out of our hall in Chicago, Boilermakers Local 1. Several who worked for me were from the “Free State of Winston” and were well aware and proud of the loyal history of their home.
That is very interesting. Winston County used to have a steam locomotive repair yard where they would rebuild steam engines. The book had photographs of huge steam engines. I have never seen steam engines so big. When diesel engines came in to being the yard had to closed down.

Here is the book, which is a collection of photographs like you would find a grandmas. I like the book because I like studying old photographs. Old steam engines, grist mills, old cars and stores and the people. If you like that kind of thing, it's a cool book.

https://www.amazon.com/Free-State-W...5925119&sr=1-1&keywords=free+state+of+winston
 

DaveBrt

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#6
"The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army. There were perhaps as many as 300,000 southerners in the Union Army, mostly from the Appalachians from West Virginia to North Alabama." This is a quote for a book I got for Christmas about Winston County Alabama. My Martin and Tidwell kin live up in there. Can anyone confirm this number?

There is a statue at the county court house commemorating the 200+ Union soldiers and 100+ Confederate soldiers from Winston County who fought in the war.

View attachment 215412
Silly statement. The Confederate army did not exist until southerners joined together to create it. The Union army was tiny until the northers joined it and made it an army large enough to fight the Confederate one. By your reasoning, the Revolution was fought between the British army and the Colonial army (which did not exist until the Colonials created it).

Neither side in either war could have fought without the nation behind them (even though the nation was not completely united, either north or south).
 
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#7
Silly statement. The Confederate army did not exist until southerners joined together to create it. The Union army was tiny until the northers joined it and made it an army large enough to fight the Confederate one. By your reasoning, the Revolution was fought between the British army and the Colonial army (which did not exist until the Colonials created it).

Neither side in either war could have fought without the nation behind them (even though the nation was not completely united, either north or south).
I think the author who wrote it was trying to say that many people in the south did not support the Confederacy or cession and joined the Union Army or simply stayed home. Like the Tories during the Revolutionary War.
.
 

unionblue

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#8
"The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army. There were perhaps as many as 300,000 southerners in the Union Army, mostly from the Appalachians from West Virginia to North Alabama." This is a quote for a book I got for Christmas about Winston County Alabama. My Martin and Tidwell kin live up in there. Can anyone confirm this number?

There is a statue at the county court house commemorating the 200+ Union soldiers and 100+ Confederate soldiers from Winston County who fought in the war.

View attachment 215412
@Will Carry ,

You might want to check out the book, The South vs. The South: How Anti-Confederate Southerners Shaped The Course Of The Civil War, by William W. Freehling.

Freehling states "Statistics indicate other Southerners' ability to cool white Confederate ardor; and the numbers illuminate but the tip of the iceberg. Southern blacks supplied close to 150,000 Union soldiers and sailors (northern free blacks provided another 50,000). Border South whites added 200,000 and Confederate state whites 100,000 soldiers to Union troop strength. The resulting total of 450,000 Southerners who wore Union blue, half as many as the 900,000 Southerners who wore Confederate gray, replaced every one of the Federals' 350,000 slain men and supplied 100,000 more men besides--a number greater than the usual size of Robert E. Lee's main Confederate army."

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 
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#9
"The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army. There were perhaps as many as 300,000 southerners in the Union Army, mostly from the Appalachians from West Virginia to North Alabama." This is a quote for a book I got for Christmas about Winston County Alabama. My Martin and Tidwell kin live up in there. Can anyone confirm this number?

There is a statue at the county court house commemorating the 200+ Union soldiers and 100+ Confederate soldiers from Winston County who fought in the war.

View attachment 215412
Per " Lincoln's Loyalists Union Soldiers from the Confederacy" Richard Current North East University Press 104k Southern white men from the eleven Confederate States fought for the Union. This figure does not include Unionist guerrillas or home guards. Well over one hundred thousand black men from the South enlisted in the Union Army.
Leftyhunter
 
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#10
Silly statement. The Confederate army did not exist until southerners joined together to create it. The Union army was tiny until the northers joined it and made it an army large enough to fight the Confederate one. By your reasoning, the Revolution was fought between the British army and the Colonial army (which did not exist until the Colonials created it).

Neither side in either war could have fought without the nation behind them (even though the nation was not completely united, either north or south).
Not a silly statement. There were Northeners in Confederate service from private all the way to major general although more Southerners fought for the Union then Northeners for the Confederacy.
The war was not fought between regions so much has by ideology. Many of our posters are under the illusion that the vast majority of Southerners supported the Confederacy. Subtract the African Americans and the Unionists and maybe initially a bit more then half the Southern population supported the Confederacy. Of that many changed their minds as the Confederacy was loosing.
Leftyhunter
 
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#11
"The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army."
don't you think the opposite is actually true ? hating yanks was a regional pastime long before the war. by contrast i don't think yankees hated southerners (i can not think of a derogatory name for antebellum southerners that was regionally specific ) but thought of them as hicks and hayseeds. the armies , when they weren't actually fighting were usually very cordial.
 
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#12
don't you think the opposite is actually true ? hating yanks was a regional pastime long before the war. by contrast i don't think yankees hated southerners (i can not think of a derogatory name for antebellum southerners that was regionally specific ) but thought of them as hicks and hayseeds. the armies , when they weren't actually fighting were usually very cordial.
That is exactly the kind of history I like! The life and times. What were people thinking during the war? How did they live? I grew up in the rural South during the 60s so I know something of what Southerners are like but what was it like back then? The quote in my OP was from the author of the book I got. He and his wife are noted historians of Winston County history. He also wrote a book about Aviation in the South. I don't know how far his knowledge of history extends. Me? I'm getting dumber. The more I learn about history, the more I realize I don't know. The more I stay on this forum the humbler I get.
 

WJC

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#13
don't you think the opposite is actually true ? hating yanks was a regional pastime long before the war. by contrast i don't think yankees hated southerners (i can not think of a derogatory name for antebellum southerners that was regionally specific ) but thought of them as hicks and hayseeds. the armies , when they weren't actually fighting were usually very cordial.
Thanks for your response.
One can certainly view it in more than one way. And certainly the underlying regional differences that led to open military action existed before the armies took the field.
In the context of this thread, I believe it is more appropriate to consider the opposing sides as something other than simply "the North" and "the South". As has been pointed out, substantial portions of the population in each of those regions opposed the war or fought for the 'other side'.
"Unionists" and "Secessionists" has been suggested, as has "Republicans" and "Democrats". I personally believe the most accurate is "The United States" and "rebels" since it captures what I believe wre the true adversaries.
 

jackt62

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#14
For sure, there were plenty of southerners who remained unionists and opposed secession, particularly in the uplands of Tennessee, Alabama, the Carolinas, and Virginia. But because the differences between the north and the south were so great in terms of their disparate economies and cultures, it can rightly be said that the war was in fact, between the two regions. This is also shown by the fact that many in the south hoped that the confederacy could make common cause with the northern states of the midwest (Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, Indiana), which shared the Mississippi lifeline. But in the end, self-interest kept those northern states committed to the Union.
 

CSA Today

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#15
Per " Lincoln's Loyalists Union Soldiers from the Confederacy" Richard Current North East University Press 104k Southern white men from the eleven Confederate States fought for the Union. This figure does not include Unionist guerrillas or home guards. Well over one hundred thousand black men from the South enlisted in the Union Army.
Leftyhunter
In an earlier thread (The War within the Confederacy) You cite another source: http://www.ncgenweb.us/ncuv/honey1.htm as a good overview of Unionism in North Carolina. The author Michael F. Honey list the unionists as 3,200 for North Carolina and for the eleven Confederate States as 48,072 whites and 93,346 blacks. Honey's totals are roughly in line with the Civil War Home Page totals. http://www.civil-war.net/pages/troops_furnished_losses.html
 

byron ed

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#16
...However, I appreciate the statement "The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army."
I don't appreciate the statement "The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army." There was an entire third party to the Civil War, just as significant in terms of numbers and impact: Enslaved and free African Americans. The story of the Civil War literally cannot be told excluding this third front.
 
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WJC

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#17
I don't appreciate the statement "The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army." There was an entire third party to the Civil War, just as significant in terms of numbers and impact: Enslaved and free African Americans. The story of the Civil War literally cannot be told excluding this third front.
Thanks for your response.
As I read the OP, the author is discussing Southerners who were not rebels. The point being that not everyone in the "South" was a rebel. As you can see from subsequent posts, it is well recognized that among those "Southerners" who were not rebels were 4 Million Blacks.
No one is arguing that the armies were the only ones impacted by the war. But when it is termed a "war between the North and South" that is misleading because it ignores the enslaved as well as southern Unionists.
I've offered options: If you have a better way to word it so that it captures this message, please share your version.
 

John S. Carter

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#18
I can't confirm or deny the numbers from anything I've read. However, I appreciate the statement "The Civil War was not between the North and the South. It was between the Union Army and the Confederate Army."
Were did the Union and Confederacy obtain a vast majority of their troops and command?Union from the North and West,Confederacy from the border and Southern states.The Union had brigades that fought under the Irish flag.The Conf. had Cherokee who fought against the Northern soldiers.Those who fought for the other side did so for personal reasons .Every man that fought under a flag which represented their believes but most of these came from the sections and that is why it is referred to as War between the North and South.Northerners will always be Yankees and Southerners will be Rebels.
 

byron ed

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#19
Thanks for your response. As I read the OP, the author is discussing Southerners who were not rebels...not everyone in the "South" was a rebel...among those "Southerners" who were not rebels were 4 Million Blacks. No one is arguing that the armies were the only ones impacted by the war. But when it is termed a "war between the North and South" that is misleading because it ignores the enslaved as well as southern Unionists...If you have a better way to word it so that it captures this message...
I don't. I'd say it just that way, that "...when it is termed a "war between the North and South" that is misleading because it ignores the enslaved as well as southern Unionists."
 



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