The Civil War - a nightmare for supplying different caliber ammunition.

drm2m

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Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Location
Quebec
I suspect that with all the different arms that were used by both sides the logistics of supplying the different types of ammunition for long arms, carbines and pistols must have been a nightmare.

By the Indian War period -WWI and WWII I think the lesson had been somewhat learned.

David

Some examples.

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CivilWarcartridgespercussioncapswit.jpg


Spencercartridges.jpg
 
Viva la Quartermaster. They were brilliant people when they got everything and dogs when they could not get it all!
 
Well there was a process of making things more uniform as the war wore on, by Chickamauga the CS army is down to mainly .69, .58, .577, and .54. .577 and .58 being basically the same for the Enfield and Springfields. After that you go mostly .58/.577 and .54 So phase out the .69s and go more for just the Springfields, Enfields, Austrian Lorenzs and M1841s.
 
drm2m -

You certainly have quite the collection, and your photography leaves nothing to be desired, either! Thank you for sharing it with us and I, for one, look forward to the next installment.

Sincerely,
Jobe Holiday
 
Thanks Jobe Holiday and kansas for your comments.

Part of what crossed my mind when I posted this thread had to do with U.S. carbines.
The nature of the cartridges for the Burnside, Smith, Sharps, and Spencer carbines
(And some others) were all so uniquely different.
That must have been a logistical nightmare from a supply stand point.

Not the same problem for .36 and .44 caliber revolvers.

The reference to the musket ammunition evolution was well defined by Lee White.

David
 
Supply issues do to differing ammunition types was not new during the ACW and it certainly wasn't the last time it was an issue. The French had an absolute nightmare of it during the Franco Prussian War and had seemed to have learned their lesson by WW1, but had forgotten it again by WW2. The Germans had similar issues during WW2 as did we in Korea.

Even today in a US Ammo dump you'll find a variety of small arms munitions: 9mm, .38 (yes the USAF still has .38's so stop laughing) .45, 7.62 NATO, 5.56mm, .338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag and certainly .50. It is conceivable one Company sized unit might need to draw some of each though the most common will be 9mm, 5.56 & 7.62 NATO, that's still three different munitions.

It isn't so much the different ammo that can cause issues as during WW2 US Infantry would reasonably be expected to have .45, .30 Carbine & .30-06. It's that noone even remotely competent will mistake .30-06 for .30 carbine or .45 and issue the wrong ammo out. During the ACW w/ .71, .69, .58 & .54 in the same Infantry unit... things are a bit different. Visually there isn't a lot of difference between .58 & .54, especially in the dark chaotic moments of combat. I think the issie of multiple calibers was worse in the ACW because of the variety of weapons and the relative likeness of the packaged ammunition. All of that said there are very few battles where a battle was lost because the wrong ammunition was issued. Both frontline QM systems managed to get their act together in a fairly short time when it came to munitions.

Rations and fashions are another matter entirely. There can be no doubt which side of the aisle had the superior QM system.
 
I've often wondered the same thing about supply and even more than getting the ammo right.

Thanks for posting the pics of the collection David. Many I've never seen before and I saved for future reference.

Regards to all,
Jon G.
 
...
It isn't so much the different ammo that can cause issues as during WW2 US Infantry would reasonably be expected to have .45, .30 Carbine & .30-06. It's that noone even remotely competent will mistake .30-06 for .30 carbine or .45 and issue the wrong ammo out. During the ACW w/ .71, .69, .58 & .54 in the same Infantry un....

Peter Hathaway Capstick once wrote about a safari camp that found itself with a surplus of live lions at dark thirty one night.
The guide grabbed a .470 or something like, and told his client to go back to the (car? Land Rover? big tent? I dunno) and return with the biggest shells he could find.

The client returned with fists full of 12 ga.

Not on topic, but not so far off, either.
 
The company quartermaster had a good handle on how many of each weapon were in the company. This information (among other requests) was filtered up through the regimental quartermaster to whatever level of supply was available.

If your company all carried Springfields (I know, highly unlikely), and you pick up an Enfield to replace your broken Springfield, you'd better inform your quartermaster.
 
A digression from the ACW period topic.

A different war (WWII) the adoption of the MP44 by the Germans---similar concerns.

"Expanding on comments from Johan Steele mentioned above"

The new 7.92x33mm Kurz Cartridge (KurzPatr43mE)

One of the principal reasons for the delay of adoption of this gun was tied to the negative feelings Hitler had about adding a new cartridge to the manufacturing challenge, as the K98k rifle (which he had a great deal of confidence in), the MG34 and MG42 all used the longer 7.9x57mm S-Patrone cartridge.

(Double click on the thumbnail photo below---MG34 &MG42)


Hitler's concerns of the higher rate of fire of this gun and the resulting impact on the required production capacity of the new cartridge possibly delayed the adoption of these guns.

(Were there not similar concerns about the higher capacity of the Spencer carbine/rifle in the begining?)
(Wasting ammunition.)

Hitler rejected the adoption of this gun several times for some of the reasons mentioned above despite the positive recommendations from numerous high ranking officers of the Third Reich military establishment.
The development of this gun was continued without his knowledge, even after he had first rejected it.

Great gun if it had been accepted earlier in the war….it might have had an important impact.

David



Cyclic rate of fire for the MP44 in automatic mode -approx. 500 RPM, it utilized a 30 round curved stick magazine.

The MP44 was adopted to replace the MP40 9mm submachinegun.


Shown below K98k rifle, MP40 smg, MP44.


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The new 7.92x33mm Kurz Cartridge (KurzPatr43mE) for the MP44.



Expired Image Removed
 

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The company quartermaster had a good handle on how many of each weapon were in the company. This information (among other requests) was filtered up through the regimental quartermaster to whatever level of supply was available.

If your company all carried Springfields (I know, highly unlikely), and you pick up an Enfield to replace your broken Springfield, you'd better inform your quartermaster.


Why highly unlikely?? Weapons were issued to the unit, not purchased by the soldier. It was not like is so often seen in reenactmets where several different weapons were found in the ranks... maybe in a regiment, but not in a company.
 
Unlikely for a lot of reasons. Units were raised and armed by states. It wasn't exactly common that the state could arm all of them without dipping into state armories for whatever they could find. Whenever any unit had the same arm, it was more likely on company level.

Then there are smaller groups detached for special duty -- sometimes not getting back in time. And there is the combining of small companies to make one closer to full size.

From these and many other possibilities, I draw the inference that it didn't take long for a company to require widely varying ammo.
 
Actually Companies w/ a variety of arms was not uncommon, especially early in the conflict. Though IMO that was pretty much straightened out by early/mid 1862. Ad Hoc units would always be a problem, sometimes a serious one but it was an issue usually overcome over time.
 
Our old subject of interest, N.B. Forrest, later in the war relied on the U.S. Army Quartermaster, who did a reasonably good job of outfitting captured Union regiments with matching guns and ammo. Those Spencers were particularly useful and often objects of brief thanksgiving.
 
The company quartermaster had a good handle on how many of each weapon were in the company. This information (among other requests) was filtered up through the regimental quartermaster to whatever level of supply was available.

If your company all carried Springfields (I know, highly unlikely), and you pick up an Enfield to replace your broken Springfield, you'd better inform your quartermaster.

Ole,
Since the diameter of the Minie Ball was smaller that the bore, ammunition for the .58 Springfield and the .577 Enfield was interchangeable. The big problems were in the regiments or companies that a mix such as .69 smoothbores and .58 rifle-muskets or some other combination.
Tom Buckley
 
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