rebelatsea
Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2013
- Location
- Kent ,England.
When the Bombay Marine was disbanded vessels, the major warships were laid up.
Ten vessels were of immediate interest to Southern agents in England. These were:
. 1st Class Steam Frigates
Assaaye and Punjaub
Built in Bombay, 1854, 1,800 tons, 650hp(A), 700hp (P), 10 guns on the upper deck. 20 gun ports on the main deck
2nd Class Steam Frigates
Ajdha and Ferouz
Built in London 1846 (A), Bombay 1848(F), 1,440tons (A), 1,450tons (F), 500hp, 8 guns on the upper deck,
either 14 or 16 gun ports on the main deck
Aukland
Built in Glasgow 1840, 946tons 220hp, 6 guns
Semiramis
Built in Bombay 1842, 1,031 tons, 250hp 6 guns on the upper deck , unknown number of guns on the main deck
Zenubia
Built in Bombay 1851, 1,003tons, 280hp, 6 guns on the upper deck, unknown number of guns on the main deck
Sloops
Victoria
Built in Bombay, 1839, 705 tons, 230hp 5 guns
Berenice
Built in Glasgow 1836, 756 tons 220hp 5 guns
Lady Canning
Built in Bombay 1857, 527 tons, 160hp 4 guns.
These were all paddle steamers, designed and built as warships and close copies of Royal Navy vessels. Those constructed in Bombay were teak, all were timber hulled, and not iron as the Confederates had been led to believe.
Tonnages quoted are Builders Old Measurement. Engine power is nominal (NHP. six of the first seven carried upper deck guns (68pdr SB) as listed ,but were pierced for a main deck ordnance in addition.
In April 1861, all ten were offered for sale at a price of £2m to the Confederate Government.
In fact only Assaaye and Punjaub were then in Britain, both very large side wheel paddle steamers designed and built as warships. Constructed in teak, as completed they had upper deck guns only, carrying 68pdrs arranged as pivots fore and aft with eight in broadside. They were pierced for a main deck armament of twenty guns, and thus were comparable to HMS Terrible, the largest paddle warship built for the Royal Navy. They were laid up in the East India dock in London.
Charles K Prioleau, John K Fraser’s Liverpool agent had made a pre-emptive offer which had been accepted. Forty thousand bales of cotton, about nine thousand tons would cover this expenditure.
They would enter Southern ports carrying goods ,and either be outfitted as regular warships ,or be sent out again conveying cotton .
The cotton crop of 1860 had been good and many planters were heavily in favour of the scheme, as a way to get the crop into European ports before the Union blockade became effective. Confederate Treasury Secretary Meminger was in favour, the most serious objection being from Navy Secretary Stephen Mallory who pointed out that the vessels were deep draught, more than 10ft, meaning that they would be unable to enter most Southern harbours.
Confederate President Jefferson Davis and the majority of his cabinet were still under the impression that the war would be a short one, and moreover were not convinced that a national navy rather than individual state’s navies was necessary, and thus the proposal was rejected.
The only serious proposal for establishing a supply of cotton overseas was lost ,and with it the chances of obtaining a the nucleus of a seagoing ,albeit wooden and paddle steamer, fleet for the Confederate States Navy.
Nevertheless, until the Trent incident in late 1861, Frazer –Trenholm retained nominal title to the two ships in England, until the British Government withdrew then for sale to private buyers and subventioned them for use as transports to convey troops and weapons to Canada, as being paddle steamers they were then obsolete as warships to the RN.
It is possible that some if not all of the 68pdr sb from the two big ships found their way to the Confederacy.
Sources
Nepveux, Ethel S. George: Alfred Trenholm and the Company that went to war, 1861 -1865. Charleston SC, 1973 p25
Roman, Alfred :The Military Operation of General Beauregard in the War between the States,1861to 1865, New York 1884 , vol 1 pp 59 -60
Rowland, Dunbar (ed) Jefferson Davis, Constitutionalist: His Letters, Papers, and Speeches, Jackson, Miss., 1923, vol 3, pp25ff.
Basso, Hamilton, Beauregard, the Great Creole. New York, 1933 pp104 -5
Dodd, W E, Jefferson Davis, Philadelphia, 1907 p321
Meade, Robert D. Judah P. Benjamin, Confederate Statesman. New York, 1943, p66
Ships active in the Indian Navy 1858. Wiki – Fibis.
The learned gentlemen of the CivilWarTalk internet forum, naval section, in particular
George Wright, Andy Hall and Cmdr Charles Robbins USN (Retd)
History of the Indian Navy 1613 -1863, Charles Rathbone Low 1877
Andrea Cordani, MBA MBCS, www.eicships.info
The British Library, Asia, Pacific Collection.
Ten vessels were of immediate interest to Southern agents in England. These were:
. 1st Class Steam Frigates
Assaaye and Punjaub
Built in Bombay, 1854, 1,800 tons, 650hp(A), 700hp (P), 10 guns on the upper deck. 20 gun ports on the main deck
2nd Class Steam Frigates
Ajdha and Ferouz
Built in London 1846 (A), Bombay 1848(F), 1,440tons (A), 1,450tons (F), 500hp, 8 guns on the upper deck,
either 14 or 16 gun ports on the main deck
Aukland
Built in Glasgow 1840, 946tons 220hp, 6 guns
Semiramis
Built in Bombay 1842, 1,031 tons, 250hp 6 guns on the upper deck , unknown number of guns on the main deck
Zenubia
Built in Bombay 1851, 1,003tons, 280hp, 6 guns on the upper deck, unknown number of guns on the main deck
Sloops
Victoria
Built in Bombay, 1839, 705 tons, 230hp 5 guns
Berenice
Built in Glasgow 1836, 756 tons 220hp 5 guns
Lady Canning
Built in Bombay 1857, 527 tons, 160hp 4 guns.
These were all paddle steamers, designed and built as warships and close copies of Royal Navy vessels. Those constructed in Bombay were teak, all were timber hulled, and not iron as the Confederates had been led to believe.
Tonnages quoted are Builders Old Measurement. Engine power is nominal (NHP. six of the first seven carried upper deck guns (68pdr SB) as listed ,but were pierced for a main deck ordnance in addition.
In April 1861, all ten were offered for sale at a price of £2m to the Confederate Government.
In fact only Assaaye and Punjaub were then in Britain, both very large side wheel paddle steamers designed and built as warships. Constructed in teak, as completed they had upper deck guns only, carrying 68pdrs arranged as pivots fore and aft with eight in broadside. They were pierced for a main deck armament of twenty guns, and thus were comparable to HMS Terrible, the largest paddle warship built for the Royal Navy. They were laid up in the East India dock in London.
Charles K Prioleau, John K Fraser’s Liverpool agent had made a pre-emptive offer which had been accepted. Forty thousand bales of cotton, about nine thousand tons would cover this expenditure.
They would enter Southern ports carrying goods ,and either be outfitted as regular warships ,or be sent out again conveying cotton .
The cotton crop of 1860 had been good and many planters were heavily in favour of the scheme, as a way to get the crop into European ports before the Union blockade became effective. Confederate Treasury Secretary Meminger was in favour, the most serious objection being from Navy Secretary Stephen Mallory who pointed out that the vessels were deep draught, more than 10ft, meaning that they would be unable to enter most Southern harbours.
Confederate President Jefferson Davis and the majority of his cabinet were still under the impression that the war would be a short one, and moreover were not convinced that a national navy rather than individual state’s navies was necessary, and thus the proposal was rejected.
The only serious proposal for establishing a supply of cotton overseas was lost ,and with it the chances of obtaining a the nucleus of a seagoing ,albeit wooden and paddle steamer, fleet for the Confederate States Navy.
Nevertheless, until the Trent incident in late 1861, Frazer –Trenholm retained nominal title to the two ships in England, until the British Government withdrew then for sale to private buyers and subventioned them for use as transports to convey troops and weapons to Canada, as being paddle steamers they were then obsolete as warships to the RN.
It is possible that some if not all of the 68pdr sb from the two big ships found their way to the Confederacy.
Sources
Nepveux, Ethel S. George: Alfred Trenholm and the Company that went to war, 1861 -1865. Charleston SC, 1973 p25
Roman, Alfred :The Military Operation of General Beauregard in the War between the States,1861to 1865, New York 1884 , vol 1 pp 59 -60
Rowland, Dunbar (ed) Jefferson Davis, Constitutionalist: His Letters, Papers, and Speeches, Jackson, Miss., 1923, vol 3, pp25ff.
Basso, Hamilton, Beauregard, the Great Creole. New York, 1933 pp104 -5
Dodd, W E, Jefferson Davis, Philadelphia, 1907 p321
Meade, Robert D. Judah P. Benjamin, Confederate Statesman. New York, 1943, p66
Ships active in the Indian Navy 1858. Wiki – Fibis.
The learned gentlemen of the CivilWarTalk internet forum, naval section, in particular
George Wright, Andy Hall and Cmdr Charles Robbins USN (Retd)
History of the Indian Navy 1613 -1863, Charles Rathbone Low 1877
Andrea Cordani, MBA MBCS, www.eicships.info
The British Library, Asia, Pacific Collection.