Sumter Again split from Why the Civil War WAS over SLAVERY!


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Anyone who believes that Lincoln could even consider ceding US territory to a rebellious faction is living in a dream world. It would be impossible then, today, and tomorrow.
 
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cash

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Is there a direct order, I was under the impression it was more like use your own judgement.
Here's the series of orders. Check the full message from p. 301:

OR Series I, Vol. 1, p. 291:

Orders to Reduce p291.jpg


OR Series I, Vol. 1, p. 297

Orders to Reduce p297.jpg


OR Series I, Vol. 1, p. 301

Orders to Reduce p301.jpg


OR Series I, Vol. 1, p. 302:

Orders to Reduce p302.jpg


OR Series I, Vol. 1, p. 305:

Opened Fire p305.jpg


"Reduce the fort as your judgment decides to be most practicable" means to reduce the fort using the tactics Beauregard believes best. The key words there are "most practicable."
 

jgoodguy

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And the legal authority for Davis to give such an order minus a D of W?
Besides being C-in-C of confederate forces he had a nonbinding congressional resolution giving the sense of the congress that the fort should be reduced.
In addition The attack on Fort Sumter can be viewed as an act of war which is not a declaration of war, a police action to evict foreign nationals in CSA territory without permission or simply an assertion of sovereignty.
 

jgoodguy

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A year or so ago, UB showed an interest in attending one of out SCV meetings. He was cordially invited and we looked forward to meeting him. Unfortunately, he had to cancel – I believe he was living in Ohio at the time and it's a far piece from there to here. We meet at a restaurant specializing in traditional Carolina bar b cue – none of that barbarous stuff some folks grill in their back yards.We planned to treat him to a bar b cue dinner and then give him the opportunity to present his alternative interpretation for the cause of the war to the camp. Hopefully, a decent meal before his talk would have had a tempering if not a civilizing effect on his presentation. :biggrin:
The attempt had to be made. I've been asked if I would give a talk on the Alabama Fire Eater Yancy to a SCV group. Nothing came of it and no one mentioned BBQ.
 

CSA Today

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[QUOTE="unionblue, post: 1520346, member: 266"]I'm afraid my talk would have pretty much spoiled the appetites of all the SCV members present.

I was going to make the SCV pledge the central theme of my talk.

Perhaps one day.[/QUOTE]

UB,

I don't think so, Camp members had hoped to make whatever your program the center point of a new recruitment drive.:frown:

You are welcome at any time.:thumbsup:
 

OpnCoronet

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I think all the motivation Davis needed to fire on Sumter was a belief that Lincoln was sending a hostile fleet to Sumter to initiate military action, and therefore it was a case of fighting an undermanned fort with a near-starving garrison, or a well stocked fort and enemy warships at the same time.



Good points, of course, it that is true, then it is better proof of what Davis and his administration, was planning all along, rather than Lincoln.

It would seem that Lincoln was merely responding to careful trap set by Davis and his minions.
 

OpnCoronet

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It is always puzzling to me, that some on this board, can be so confident of the war like intent of Lincoln at Ft. Sumter in the face of all the historical facts of the War like preparations(and stated intent of taking it as soon as possible).

Especially by the further historical evidence that the garrison of the Ft. was deliberately placed in a position of inferiority (undermanned and near starvation) by the will and intent of the highest officials of SC and the csa(civilian and military)
 

jgoodguy

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It is always puzzling to me, that some on this board, can be so confident of the war like intent of Lincoln at Ft. Sumter in the face of all the historical facts of the War like preparations(and stated intent of taking it as soon as possible).

Especially by the further historical evidence that the garrison of the Ft. was deliberately placed in a position of inferiority (undermanned and near starvation) by the will and intent of the highest officials of SC and the csa(civilian and military)
Lincoln's sin was winning. No one kicks a loser.
 

unionblue

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[QUOTE="unionblue, post: 1520346, member: 266"]I'm afraid my talk would have pretty much spoiled the appetites of all the SCV members present.

I was going to make the SCV pledge the central theme of my talk.

Perhaps one day.

UB,

I don't think so, Camp members had hoped to make whatever your program the center point of a new recruitment drive.:frown:

You are welcome at any time.:thumbsup:
I'd be happy to assist in a Galvanized Yankee recruitment drive at you camp. :wink:
 
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Sumter was trivial.
When Britain abolished slavery in the empire in 1833, and every New England abolitionist knew he was espousing rhetoric that had moral support in Britain,
while the slave population in the South was growing by leaps and bounds, a war was probable.
The particular incidents that led to the war are interesting, but each compromise that preserved and extended slavery just made the war more likely. The North eventually won an election without any help from Southern voters, and even that democratic result did not settle it. Only total war was going to end the issue.
The nation was only lucky that it was fought before there machine guns, hydraulic howitzers, and long range bombers.
Imagine what 18 inch guns would have done to Charleston and tanks have done to Washington, D.C..
 
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I think if Davis had not believed that an attack was on the way, he would not have fired on Sumter.
Davis committed himself to attacking Fort Sumter on March 1st, well before the Fox expedition was ordered. So a fear that Lincoln intended to reinforce Sumter might have influenced Davis' decision about when to assault Fort Sumter, but not the decision about whether to assault the fort.

Here is the relevant extract from Leroy Walker's March 1 letter to Governor Pickens:

In controlling the military operations in the harbor of Charleston the President directs me to say that everything will be done that may be due to the honor and rights of South Carolina.

The President shares the feeling expressed by you that Fort Sumter should be in our possession at the earliest moment possible. But this feeling, natural and just as it is admitted to be, must yield to the necessity of the case. Thorough preparation must be made before an attack is attempted, for the first blow must be successful, both for its moral and physical consequences, or otherwise the result might be disastrous to your State in the loss of many of those whom we can least afford to spare. A failure would demoralize our people and injuriously affect us in the opinion of the world as reckless and precipitate.

Entertaining these opinions, the President directs me to say that he is engaged assiduously in pressing forward measures to effect results in which all are interested.​

Indeed, Davis wrote on February 20, after just two days in office:

My mind has been for sometime satisfied that a peaceful solution of our difficulties was not to be anticipated, and therefore my thoughts have been directed to the manner of rendering force effective. We are poorly prepared for war and have but little capacity for speedy repair of past neglect; valor is ours, and the justice of our cause will nerve the arm of our sons to meet the issue of unequal conflict, but we must seek to render the inequality as small as can be made.​

So war was his policy from day one. He just didn't want to rush into it without adequate preparation.
 

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