I believe history should be for all to see and monuments should remain were they are.
Unfortunately, modern political discussions and cultural issues have been suspended on this forum.
We wish we didn't have to do that, but things get a little too out of control, members tend to quit, and friendships are broken, and our moderation staff can become stressed to the breaking point.
Today we face a new cultural controversy, and CivilWarTalk would like to provide you with a platform to express your views on the subject.
In an effort to protect our web site and our moderation team, we will be limiting this discussion to this thread only. You may not discuss any current political or cultural topic anywhere else on CivilWarTalk.
Thank you for understanding.
If you would like to express your opinion on the Confederate Monument Controversy, please make your comments below in the "Reply" box. All replies will be moderated by ME and Only ME.
(Moderation Staff: Please note that I will handle these moderation duties, please continue doing the amazing jobs you do every day and thanks for your service!)
Also, a few other rules to take note of:
And with that, and my complements, please post your thoughts below....
- Your comments must be in reference to the Confederate Monument Controversy, any other comments will not be approved.
- Do not attempt to reply to other posters comments, this is not a typical "forum discussion" but rather a place to express your point of view on the issue.
- Limited modern politics will be permitted in your comments, but will be limited at my discretion. If you wouldn't say something in a polite conversation in public, don't expect me to approve it here.
- Please refrain from posting comments more than once per day, anyone caught spamming the thread will be banned from the thread.
- I reserve the right to close this thread at any time if I feel it's getting out of hand.
Using that logic, we should have ditched the Stars and Stripes long ago because it was the flag of the choice of the KKK for decades.I don't want to discuss the monuments at length. I have written about them a few times in the past and don't need to repeat those comments. I did want to make a few observations on how this "controversy" has become so heated and violent.
1. The effort by state governments to take away the power of local municipalities to remove statues on city or town owned property is a major contributor to the heatedness of the fights. The monuments were often erected in urban areas in the South where blacks were excluded from government by law and violence. In the modern era, as African Americans have had the ordinary rights of citizenship restored to them, they have come to play a larger role in the places where they live. When they began to work towards removing the monuments, conservative legislators in state governments enacted laws to deprive them of this ordinary power of local government. This essentially means that citizens of a city who don't want to honor Jefferson Davis or Nathan Bedford Forrest are prevented from removing the memorials to them by the state.
2. I have watched many hearings on monuments at city councils online and read the social media postings of Confederate Heritage organizations concerning the different monument controversies. Frankly, they typically appear to anyone who is not a partisan as racist outpourings. Standing with CBFs at monuments is not a way to garner support. Nor is posing with the League of the South, the Trad Workers Party, or other white supremacist groups. Calling city council members in Charlottesville who voted to remove the monuments "Not True Virginians/Southerners" because they are from immigrant families or are non-white just reminds folks of the racism they already see embodied in the statues.
3. In the last year, the Confederate monuments have become the altars of the Alt-Right. They are now indelibly identified with political racism and white supremacy. That will be hard to change.
I've always thought those sort of monuments are best left in battlefields, cemeteries and museums. But my real worry is where does this end? We've already seen calls for Jefferson and Washington monuments to be removed and the Lincoln memorial has been graffitied. It's a dangerous path in my opinion giving into roving mobs. If local councils and or state politicians decide legally that these things should be removed, fine. If it's done by the book well then alright. But just letting anarchist types rip them down is crazy.
Interesting, but we will have to see what happens on appeal.Judge Throws Out Alabama Law That Protects Confederate Monuments
January 15, 20195:52 PM ET
...But on Monday an Alabama judge rejected his arguments and overturned the law.
"The state has placed a thumb on the scale for a pro-confederacy message," Jefferson County Circuit Judge Michael Graffeo wrote in his opinion, saying that by forcing the city to leave the monument alone, the state was infringing on Birmingham's right to free speech.
"A city has a right to speak for itself, to say what it wishes, and to select the views that it wants to express," Graffeo added. He said the law didn't provide adequate ways for the city to reject the monument's "message of white supremacy."
Full article with pics can be found here - https://www.npr.org/2019/01/15/685672038/judge-throws-out-alabama-law-that-protects-confederate-monuments
I have a list somewhere, without about twenty different polls, and the result is always the same: between 60 and 80 percent of the people surveyed want monuments left where they are, either as they are or with context sometimes. It is my firm belief that it's a very loud, vocal minority who are able to get these monuments removed, or in the case of Durham and UNC, just go act like vandals and pull them down themselves.Despite the fact that Republican leaders in the state rolled over to the political left and voted to remove the Children of the Confederacy plaque from the Texas State House, polling shows that Texan voters overwhelmingly support historical monuments in the state.
“Texans back monument protection by 64-26, with support from 60% of Hispanics and 35% of African-Americans,” said a memo by the Courageous Conservatives PAC
According to the poll, 11 percent of black voters and 14 percent of Hispanic voters were undecided. A full two-thirds of Spanish-speaking Texan voters support preserving the monuments.
|Thread starter||Similar threads||Forum||Replies||Date|
|Portrait Submitted in a Desertion Trial||Period Photos & Examinations||2|
|Reminder Feb. has only 2 days to submit Recipes for Cook Awards||Foods & Recipes||6|
|Heard from the NPS about the 3D Rendered image of the USS Cairo I submitted.||Artwork||15|
|READER SUBMITTED: Thomaston Memorial Association Received Grant - CT||The Event Wire: Reenactments, Walks, Shows, & More||1|