Limited Submit Your Comments about the Confederate Monument Controversy

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19thGeorgia

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A Former Slave Votes for a Confederate Monument

Speech of John F. Harris, Mississippi House of Representatives, February 11, 1890:

"Mr. Speaker, I have risen here in my place to offer a few words on the bill. I have come from a sick bed, and was forced to struggle up here leaning on the arm of a friend. I stand here in considerable pain. Perhaps it was not prudent for me to come. But, sir, I could not rest quietly in my room, sick though I am, and allow this discussion to pass without contributing to it a few remarks of my own. I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentleman from Marshall county. I am sorry that any son of a soldier should go on record as opposed to the erection of a monument in honor of the brave dead. And, sir, I am convinced that had he seen what I saw at Seven Pines and in the seven day's fighting round Richmond, the battlefields covered with the mangled forms of those who fought for their country and their country's honor, he would not have made that speech.

When the news came that the South was to be invaded, those men went forth to fight for what they believed, and they made no requests for monuments to commemorate their brave deeds and holy sacrifices. But they died, and their virtues should be remembered. Sir, I went with them. I, too, wore the gray, the same color that my master wore. We staid four long years, and if that war had gone on till now I would have been there yet. I know what it all meant, and understand the meaning of my words, when I say that I would have been with my countrymen still had the war continued until this good day. I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions. When my mother died I was a boy. Who, sir, then acted the part of a mother to the orphaned slave boy but my 'old missis?' Were she living now, or could she speak to me from those high realms where are gathered the sainted dead, she would tell me to vote for this bill. And, sir, I shall vote for it. I want it known to all the world that my vote is given in favor of the bill to erect a monument in honor of the brave Confederate dead."
-Clarion Ledger, Jackson, MS, February 27, 1890
 

Henry Whitworth

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By the "moderation" that goes on here, your site pretty much becomes a cozy little haven for racists to feel normal and unchallenged. Pretending that worship of the Confederacy is something charming and somehow unrelated to racism is obtuse at best. Just because it has been done for a long time doesn't make it not-racist. We've been a largely racist nation since our founding so leaning on what's "normal" or old in a particular era isn't actually cover for racism. It's just more racism. I don't know your personal views on this but in the site that you run and the way you do it, you're pretty much in line with Trump's "many sides...many sides." You're complicit.
 

48th Miss.

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Wow seems the definition of racism has changed. I have only been here a year but have never seen a racist thread or slavery condoned by USA or CSA leaning members. This is a pretty tight ship with a lot of knowledgeable posters. If anybody sees racism here i suggest you go to a less informed blog and apply your trade there.
 
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donna

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I didn't know who Missy Elliot was either. My husband heard that yesterday and we looked her up.

It is incredible.

Now cemetery at Camp Chase been vandalized. Where is this going to stop? I am just heartbroken. We had service at Camp Chase about 2 years ago. I am so glad we went. My husband took lots of pictures.
 

Dedej

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The Missy Elliott petition was actually a joke - one that no one would take serious - especially Black America. It's her fans - that are calling for it -- and it's her hometown. No one really thinks it would happen or wants it to happen - outside of her fans.

Link: http://time.com/4910939/missy-elliott-confederate-statue/

If it were me.... I'd vote Beyoncé.
 
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Mild53

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673646_140431_20150710_confedera3.jpg



Here in Maine there is a headstone for a Confederate soldier. Apparently, the body of local Union soldier was to be shipped home - but a soldier in a gray uniform was shipped instead. Thinking that the soldier's family would want a proper burial, locals buried him in the town cemetary and bought him a headstone. In 2015, after the Charlestown church massacre, the folks up there thought it was time to remove the confederate flags, and replace them with American flags.

I am proud of this monument to a confederate soldier, it is a reminder of what is good in us. As for the confederate flags, their purpose was never to honor the soldier, they were there to celebrate a country founded to continue to enslave others. So it’s good to see them go.

I am OK with honoring our ancestors sacrifices – but I am not OK with celebrating and perpetuating values that should have died a long time ago.
 
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E_just_E

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A monument is a monument. And for a monument to be a monument (which is a pretty expensive proposition when that happened) there had to be a reason and a bunch of people to think so to pick the bill. And this is History. And we and our kids and grandkids will be better of understanding history (and have the option to give it thumbs up or down) than pretending it never happened.
 
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Can't make this stuff up..
ESPN pulls Asian-American announcer from Virginia football game because he has a Confederate general's name.

In the wake of the events in Charlottesville, Va., ESPN decided to pull one of its announcers from calling a University of Virginia football game -- because his name is Robert Lee.

Lee, an Asian-American sportscaster who started with the network in 2016, was moved to a different game "simply because of the coincidence of his name," ESPN said, referencing the Confederate general Robert E. Lee.


http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-asian-american-announcer-from-virginia-football-game-because-has-confederate-generals-name.html
 

UKMarkw

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As a foreigner I have watched these event s unfold with interest. I was in Virginia recently and visited several of the smaller towns and was in fact in Charlottesville a week before the unrest. I mentioned to my wife several times that there were monuments in court house grounds that would probably be removed.

There is a fine line between glorifying an individuals actions in battle and what that same person was otherwise responsible for, a line I don't dare to try and decipher. It does seem strange to me that the issue of removal has gained so much momentum in such a short period of time and with such ferocity. It seems to me that democracy is the backbone of any reasonable country but in this instance that has been largely ignored.

I do believe symbols such as the CBF should be consigned to the history books and not used by hate groups which dishonour the flag IMHO the monuments are another matter and I think individual areas need to exercise their right of democratic process to decide the fate.
 
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Wallyfish

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I have toured several WWII German sites one being Dachau. It would be very easy to have leveled that concentration camp but the German's elected to build a well done Memorial reminding people that the atrocities that the nazi's did should never again happen.

I wish we could adopt this "never again" philosophy. Every monument should have a nearby interpretive marker reminding people that our own slavery sins of the past should never again happen.

Unfortunately, these monuments are not the real problem. The real problem is in a select few people who have a deep down hatred of other races. On my first job, I worked with an individual who was terribly racist. He despised people of color and he used a confederate flag as his way of advertising his hatred. Removing confederate monuments would not stop his hatred. I am 63 and left that job in 1983, but that one guy left such a horrible impression on my soul. How one man could be filled with such hatred is remarkably sad.

We must come up with a way to use the monuments as an educational tool to remind us to never again repeat that history.

I have no problem in maintaining historically placed confederate monuments (on battlefields,home towns,etc). It is more difficult for me to justify a monument placed in an area where no historical action occurred.
 
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Dedej

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I really like CWT not only for the priceless information I have learned from many of it's members - but some of the genuine friendships I feel like I have made here. But, I would not be doing anyone a favor by not mentioning in my time lurking and then joining this forum I have noticed a romanticization of the Confederacy -- and -- some comments that have made me very uncomfortable.

Slavery, mistreatment of the enslaved is something CWT is against as a whole - which I love. But, that doesn't have anything to do with racism or having bigoted thoughts and views. In essence, you can't miss the Confederacy or support it's beliefs and see "everyone the same "- or say "I am not racist" because insert some comment/reason. That is not being truthful with oneself. Nor is ignoring others opinions. Asking for dialogue and then questioning or ignoring others experiences + opinions -- is not the answer as well.

Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Bigotry
: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Don't get me wrong, CWT is very unique from the rest of the Internet - nor is it like other forums, comment sections where racism and insensitive comments thrive --and should be applauded.

But, CWT lacks diversity and different outside opinions for other groups -- and due to that it does seem like it's a different world -- at least for me.

It's a different world that is nice to visit and learn from - but the views here are not reality for me - and most of the people I know of all backgrounds and ethnicities.

I have taken many diversity classes and workshops and one of my favorite educators is Dr. Robin DiAngelo. She coined and discusses "White Fragility" -- and it's what I have noticed is the issue with the monuments and some of the comments here on CWT. Some of the popular narratives such as "I don't own slaves," "focusing on racism is what divides us," and the beloved "race card" -- she covers and explains well.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.​

This video is very educational if one takes the time to watch with an open ear and heart:


More information:
The Charlottesville protests are white fragility in action
The Sugarcoated Language Of White Fragility
 
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ariete

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Italy
like, and so very much, the post by @robfergusonjr , it should make think how the things are always gone.
how much knowledge humans lost beacuse not compatible with what had to follow or judged eretic, and how many real secrets we could know today about everything, our nature in first.

about the more basic history and the relative wars, which are steps in the time, cool to study for the many reasons a passionate can find, i feel very sad what's happening in your country because i believe is the first time your own history (made on american soil) being judged by 'supreme wills' .. here in europe isn't a new, here it's all already destroied.
following this path, if a sense would have, let's remove all your history, because made by slavers and full of holocausts, native tribes ahead, and call it a nazi story ... for what wants mean ...
beware americans to don't make the end of the europeans.

artistic and war history of a country hasn't the same meaning, but instead remove some monuments to substitute them with others, make new would be better.
... but please no miss elliot ... there're so many artists, so qualitatively superior to celebrate, like Marvin Gaye, George Clinton :D .. and many other whites :D


first time i watched in the Soprano's series this statue below, in Jersey (sorry for the confidential tone), i believed was dedicate to a M.O.B boss :D

costellobjpg-b5af48d95a65d397.jpg
 
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RobertP

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on the long winding road
History of the Baltimore Lee-Jackson Monument.

The Baltimore equestrian monument commemorating Lee and Jackson was one of those removed last week. It had been dedicated in 1948 by then Mayor Pelosi who spoke these words at the ceremony:

“Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity, we can look for inspiration to the lives of Lee and Jackson to remind us to be resolute and determined in preserving our sacred institutions,” D’Alesandro, Jr. said at the dedication ceremony."

So for at least this statue we know exactly why it was put there; to honor those men for being steadfast in preserving sacred institutions. If the speaker's name sounds familiar it should, he was Nancy Pelosi's father.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2017/08/23/kellyanne-calls-out-pelosis-hypocrisy-on-confederate-statues-n2372231
 
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novushomus

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I realize that this might be a bit of a hot potato, but it is not my intention to provoke a political debate (especially a modern one given recents events), but I saw this piece on CNN this morning and thought it might be discussion worthy. An excerpt here:
(CNN) So where are Longstreet's statues?

General James Longstreet was an important figure in the Confederate Army; as important as Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, J.E.B. Stuart or A.P. Hill; nearly as critical to the Confederate cause as Robert E. Lee.

A genius at combining offensive and defensive maneuvers, Longstreet led his 28,000 men in a flanking movement -- described as the largest simultaneous mass assault of the war -- and routed the Union Army at the Second Battle of Bull Run in 1862. The carnage that Longstreet's stout defense inflicted on attacking Union troops during the Battle of Fredericksburg a month later was so great that Lee, watching it, observed, "It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it." Longstreet's defeat of the northern troops during the Battle of Chickamauga in 1863 provided the Confederacy with its only major victory after Lee's defeat at Gettysburg.

He was, by most accounts, Lee's most trusted general. Lee once termed him "the staff in my right hand," and by the end of the war made Longstreet his second-in-command.

170822155200-gen-james-longstreet-medium-plus-169.jpg

Gen. James Longstreet (1821-1904)

Yet outside of a roadside sign near his birthplace in Edgefield, South Carolina, one statue in Gainesville, Georgia, where he died, and his name on a few streets in a handful of Southern towns, there are virtually no memorials to Longstreet throughout the South -- or the entire country, for that matter.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/opinions/where-are-monuments-to-confederate-general-longstreet-opinion-holmes/index.html

I have my own thoughts but unfortunately I am little constrained for time at the moment.
 

jgoodguy

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Why those Confederate soldier statues look a lot like their Union counterparts
Taking down monuments happened back then too.

figure04.JPG
The ill-fated Confederate soldier statue in the Elberton Granite Museum. (Sarah Beetham )

When Southerners saw statues that looked too much like those depicting Union boys, they rebelled. In 1900, in Elberton, Ga., an angry crowd gathered in the middle of the night and pulled down a statue of a Confederate soldier because the sculptor — a Southerner, as it turned out — had put a long overcoat (a staple of Union uniforms) on the young man, probably to save the labor of carving out two full legs. “It was the sculptor’s poor first attempt,” Beetham said. “The soldier looked like he was out of a Keebler elf cookie.” To the good folks of Elberton, he looked like a Yankee interloper. Down he tumbled.

Townspeople dug a hole in the middle of Elberton’s main square and buried the offending statue facedown. (It was dug up in 1982 and now resides in a local museum.) Elberton then replaced that statue with one from Monumental Bronze’s catalogue. “They replaced a monument made by a local Southern sculptor with a true Yankee interloper, made in Connecticut,” Beetham said.​
 
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Booklady

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This essay by the Orthodox Christian writer Rod Dreher looks at the controversy and surrounding violence as some here have opined -- evidence of something deeper going on in our society, and for some time now.

"...Whether or not any or most of these people will succeed in their goal is not my concern here. Rather, I’m interested in what this new period of iconoclasm tells us about where we are as a society, and where we may be going.

"Iconoclasm often accompanies radical, even violent, change in a society. The word comes from the Greek meaning 'image-smashers,' and was first used to describe a turbulent period in the Byzantine empire in which the Emperor attempted to ban the use of religious icons as idolatrous. He failed, as you can see by visiting an Orthodox church today. But the word stuck because it was useful....

"...That’s often what iconoclasm tries to do: erase cultural memory. The zealotry with which iconoclasts go after their targets has to do with their conviction that the image, and what it stands for, is so offensive that it cannot be tolerated, nor can its defenders be reasoned with. They can only be conquered by force...."

The complete essay -- deadly serious, provocative, frightening (??) -- can be found here: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/iconoclasm-violence-statues/?mc_cid=12e8318cb4&mc_eid=7f77e29435
 

Aussie Billy Sherman

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I wonder if all celebrities and media personalities with Confederate sounding names will be affected by this. lol. Plus I think public figures with thick beards and actors who've played confederates should face censure. haha
 
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