Stonewall Stonewall born today, what was his greatest moment?

His greatest moment as a commander would be the attack on the 11th Corps at Chancellorsville, followed by his outstanding timing in getting killed at the height of his career.
It is not a great moment for anyone getting killed.

May all soldiers killed or who died from battle rest in peace.

Maybe not personally, Donna - but I believe Cash's maybe too cynical observation is dead on - pun intended! - at least as far as posterity is concerned. Stonewall, Jeb Stuart, and even George Custer went out in a veritable blaze of glory regardless of any other aspects of their careers or personalities; whereas poor A.P. Hill is all but forgotten today. Of course the real implied question is whether Jackson's reputation and therefore memory would've survived any better than Hill's in the waning days of the Confederacy had he failed to live up to all the expectations of those who survived him!
 
Maybe not personally, Donna - but I believe Cash's maybe too cynical observation is dead on - pun intended! - at least as far as posterity is concerned. Stonewall, Jeb Stuart, and even George Custer went out in a veritable blaze of glory regardless of any other aspects of their careers or personalities; whereas poor A.P. Hill is all but forgotten today. Of course the real implied question is whether Jackson's reputation and therefore memory would've survived any better than Hill's in the waning days of the Confederacy had he failed to live up to all the expectations of those who survived him!
Lee's reputation survived why not Jackson's?
 
Lee's reputation survived why not Jackson's?

That seems to be a basic tenet of the Lost Cause philosophy, and as far as I can tell it really didn't take hold firmly until after Lee's death in 1870 when he became the larger-than-life Confederate icon of memory. Remember that to a few like most notably George Pickett he was that old man who murdered my division at Gettysburg. Because of his own untimely death many similar opinions of Jackson by men like Richard Garnett, A.P. Hill, W. W. Loring, (and those like Turner Ashby who preceded him in death) and others with whom he'd quarreled were quietly forgotten in the general mourning.
 
Lee's reputation survived why not Jackson's?

I'll expound a little more fully that the remaining Confederates rallied around the memory of Lee following his death. One example is in the existence of two differing memoirs by E. Porter Alexander: his Military Memoirs of a Confederate was published early in the Twentieth Century only after his original manuscript had been read and rejected by friends and associates, largely for being too critical of Lee. The original wasn't discovered and published for several decades more as Fighting for the Confederacy, a much more open, honest, and critical view.
 
The lost cause made Lee a legend but even before the lost cause he had a great reputation. I'm not saying it's impossible for Jackson to have developed a bad rep or to have been forgotten. Just saying reputations did survive the war.
 
Of course the real implied question is whether Jackson's reputation and therefore memory would've survived any better than Hill's in the waning days of the Confederacy had he failed to live up to all the expectations of those who survived him!


Yes it would have. Jackson's legend and reputation was already made before his death. His action of getting out of the Valley and leaving Patterson holding the bag, and then his is actions at 1st Manassas , His 1862 Valley Campaign, his flank attack at Chancellorsville enhanced it.

Had he failed to live up to all the expectations is a question we can not answer. So we can only go with what we know. His actions at the Seven Days Battle was less than Jackson's capabilities that is for sure, but what general didn't have a failure at some point. Not even the great Union general Grant, who I admire greatly, was immune to failure..............

The one thing I can imagine, had he lived, that would have possibly enhanced his reputation, would have been.........If he would have just taken that **** hill at Gettysburg..................lol

Jackson was the real deal......................

Cash's remark was nothing more than baiting..........He didn't catch any fish with it..........lol



3rd Texas Regiment Infantry.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 
The lost cause made Lee a legend but even before the lost cause he had a great reputation. I'm not saying it's impossible for Jackson to have developed a bad rep or to have been forgotten. Just saying reputations did survive the war.
Getting killed was certainly bad for the Confederacy militaristically, however, it escalated his reputation to martyrdom. Would his reputation have progressed had he survived? Difficult to say. What was certain is that he was often a better independent commander than a subordinate on the battlefield; and Grant was coming east.
 
Getting killed was certainly bad for the Confederacy militaristically, however, it escalated his reputation to martyrdom. Would his reputation have progressed had he survived? Difficult to say. What was certain is that he was often a better independent commander than a subordinate on the battlefield; and Grant was coming east.[/QUOTE
Just imagine how the valley campaign of 64 would have gone if Jackson was in command and not Early? Based on how he marched his men in the valley in 62 he might have gotten to Washington before it was reinforced.
 
Just imagine how the valley campaign of 64 would have gone if Jackson was in command and not Early? Based on how he marched his men in the valley in 62 he might have gotten to Washington before it was reinforced.


For some reason it showed up inside the quote
 
Yes it would have. Jackson's legend and reputation was already made before his death. His action of getting out of the Valley and leaving Patterson holding the bag, and then his is actions at 1st Manassas , His 1862 Valley Campaign, his flank attack at Chancellorsville enhanced it.

Had he failed to live up to all the expectations is a question we can not answer. So we can only go with what we know. His actions at the Seven Days Battle was less than Jackson's capabilities that is for sure, but what general didn't have a failure at some point. Not even the great Union general Grant, who I admire greatly, was immune to failure..............

The one thing I can imagine, had he lived, that would have possibly enhanced his reputation, would have been.........If he would have just taken that **** hill at Gettysburg..................lol

Jackson was the real deal......................

Cash's remark was nothing more than baiting..........He didn't catch any fish with it..........lol



View attachment 89886
Respectfully,
William
I missed your post before sending mine :D
 
When speaking of Jackson I've always been biased because I'm one of the crazy ones that think after you take off all the razzle and dazzle of other commanders (Lee included) Jackson was the best commander for the south. He knew that they needed to have that "killer instinct" if they wanted to achieve victory. He didn't fight to win, he fought to destroy the enemy. For instance when Pope had his back to the river prior to 2nd Manassas, Jackson wanted to attack and destroy Pope. Same at Chancellorsville
 
Getting killed was certainly bad for the Confederacy militaristically, however, it escalated his reputation to martyrdom. Would his reputation have progressed had he survived? Difficult to say. What was certain is that he was often a better independent commander than a subordinate on the battlefield; and Grant was coming east.


Yes his death did escalate his reputation to martyrdom, but without his actions that gave him his reputation, Jackson's death would not have made him a martyr, but I do see your point.

Grant was coming East..............and I admire Grant, but who had he built his reputation on out west ?.............In my opinion....He was coming East and was about to face the big boys.......Grant Vs Jackson would have been interesting !!
Grant Vs Lee was an awesome match up, with Grant coming out on top !!!, but what if Grant met Lee and the AoNV at the top of their game ? An AoNV in early 1863 ?.................It would have been like Nolan Ryan facing Babe Ruth with each in their prime :smile:.............I am not attempting to take away anything from Grant !!! Grant is my favored Union general and he was their best..................Lee was no saint, saints do not fight wars. Lee was no "Marble man" as we all have our flaws, but I select Lee over Grant overall, only because Lee did more with less than any Civil War general, but Grant accomplished more than any Civil War general.


24th Alabama Infantry.JPG

Respectfully,
William
 
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I agree with those who say that his greatest moment was the rout of the XI Corps at Chancellorsville. He was struck down at the moment of his greatest victory.

I just read through this part of the battle in Edward Porter Alexander's Fighting for the Confederacy. I've stood in that field and to read it off of the page and imagine Jackson's troops roaring out of the woods and sending the XI Corps running is just an incredible event. Imagine the Rebel Yell screaming out and the boom of the canons...you're practically there!

And what a march to get them into position!
 
When speaking of Jackson I've always been biased because I'm one of the crazy ones that think after you take off all the razzle and dazzle of other commanders (Lee included) Jackson was the best commander for the south. He knew that they needed to have that "killer instinct" if they wanted to achieve victory. He didn't fight to win, he fought to destroy the enemy. For instance when Pope had his back to the river prior to 2nd Manassas, Jackson wanted to attack and destroy Pope. Same at Chancellorsville


Jackson had the killer instinct !! I have often wondered what the AoNV would have accomplished had he been in command ???????..............Scary.......lol



8th Alabama Infantry, Co. I    Emerald Guards.JPG

Respectfully,
William
 
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