Restricted Stained Glass Windows enter the Monument Debate...Remove Confederate symbols from Episcopal Churches

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5fish

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This the second time I know of where stained glass windows were removed because of Confederate symbols... The first was the at the National Catherial and later at the Christ Church Catherial, Cincinnati, Ohio...

The Episcopal Churches struggle with Confederate symbols...


A year after Charlottesville: Confederate symbols wear out welcome at Ohio cathedral

Images honoring Confederate generals Robert E. Lee and Leonidas Polk have been removed from a Cincinnati cathedral.

The journey to this decision started one year ago for Christ Church Cathedral following a sermon by Dean Gail Greenwell. From her pulpit, she challenged the cathedral’s vestry to consider what to do with the memorials – a plaque honoring Episcopal bishop and Confederate Gen. Leonidas Polk and a stained glass pane honoring Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee – and to review what might be missing from the church.


Video...
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/l...ar-out-welcome-at-ohio-cathedral/95-582469557

Note... Window scene Ohio...
Robert E. Lee, the Confederate general, is depicted as receiving a blessing from Virginia Bishop William Meade in this stained-glass window at Christ Church Cathedral, Cincinnati, Ohio.

Note... The Washington window was completely removed...

Washington National Cathedral in the nation’s capital is deliberating over whether to remove its stained-glass windows honoring Confederate generals Lee and Stonewall Jackson. Depictions of the Confederate battle flag already have been removed from the windows.

Note:
This church has stained glass windows honoring Lee and Davis...

Attempts by congregations to bridge such a divide can be painful, but the process also can be healing. St. Paul’s Episcopal Church in Richmond, Virginia, is a case study.

St. Paul’s, located in the former Confederate capital, was once known as the “Cathedral of the Confederacy.” Lee worshiped there, and Confederate President Jefferson Davis was a member. Until recently, a plaque hung on a wall in the church honoring Davis and featuring the Confederate battle flag.


Note... The Episcopal Church has deep roots in Confederate history... link to more about the churches troubles...

https://www.episcopalchurch.org/library/article/pressure-mounts-remove-confederate-symbols-episcopal-institutions
 
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gary

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I'd take it down to prevent vandalism. Back in the '70s there were a lot of rocks thrown through stained glass windows.

BTW, best stain glass I've seen is the little chapel in Petersburg. Tiffany unfortunately destroyed his notes so that his work could not be exceeded.
 
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donna

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It is sad. But they do need to be protected. I really admire and enjoy all stained glass windows. They are treasures that can never be replaced. Art is art and should be enjoyed and appreciated for itself. It is too bad that people see art as political now. It is just works to be saved and appreciated for their beauty.
 

5fish

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Here is a person defending the Episcopal Church confederate past... He points out leading x-confederates accomplishments after the war... It's a great read if you are a "Lost Cause" fan... it lists all the places where Lee worshiped during the war...

https://www.virtueonline.org/episcopal-churchs-knee-jerk-reaction-confederate-names

George Washington, a colonial Anglican, was the Commander-in-Chief of the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War (1775-1783). He became the first president. He was a slave owner and he has an Episcopal chapel named for him in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania -- Washington Memorial Chapel.

Episcopal Bishop Leonidas Polk (I Louisiana) was one of 18 three-star generals in the Confederate Army. In 1864, he was killed in action at Pine Mountain, Georgia. He was a slave owner and he has an Episcopal mission named for him in Leesville, Louisiana -- Leonidas Polk Memorial Mission.

Robert E. Lee, an Episcopalian, was General-in-Chief of the Confederate States Army during the War Between the States (1861-1865). He surrendered at Appomattox, bringing an end to four years of bloodshed. He seemed to be a reluctant slave owner and, until Sept. 18, he had an Episcopal church named for him in Lexington, Virginia -- R.E. Lee Memorial Church.

The Civil War ended in 1865. Many Confederate Civil War veterans went on the live exemplary lives of service. Robert E. Lee became the president of Washington College (Washington & Lee University) and the senior warden of Grace Church in Lexington, Virginia; Josiah Gorgas became the president of the University of Alabama; Wade Hampton III became the Governor of South Carolina and the US Railroad Commissioner under President Grover Cleveland; William N. Pendleton returned to Grace Church as rector; James Longstreet was president of the New Orleans & Northeastern Railroad, he served as ambassador to the Ottoman Empire under President Rutherford B. Hayes, and as the US Railroad Commissioner under presidents William McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt; and Ellison Capers, who penned the Confederate's Prayer, became an Episcopal bishop (VIII South Carolina) and was elected the South Carolina secretary of state. He also became a chancellor at Sewanee. He is one of eight Episcopal bishops buried at Trinity Episcopal Cathedral churchyard in Charleston.

John Hood became the president of Life Association of America insurance company; Francis Shoup, an Episcopal priest, became a professor at the University of Mississippi and then at the University of the South at Sewanee. He was also a published author; J.E. Johnston became the president of the Alabama & Tennessee River Railroad, he was elected to Congress and served as US Railroad Commissioner under President Grover Cleveland; and Jefferson Davis became the president of Carolina Life Insurance Company, he was elected to the US Senate, but was barred from office by the 14th Amendment and he turned down the presidency of Texas A&M.
Leondinas Polk was an Episcopal bishop who was looking forward to returning to his New Orleans Cathedral. He helped to found the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee and was killed in battle; and before the War, J.E.B. Stuart designed a piece of cavalry equipment -- the saber hook -- and received a US patent for it. He was killed in battle. A. P. Hill and Dorsey Pender also died during the War.

Following the Civil War, all officers and soldiers returned home and tried to pick up their lives. Now all Civil War veterans -- Union and Confederate -- have died and some are buried are in Episcopal churchyards and seminary graveyards or in military cemeteries.
 

5fish

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They conspired with the Confederacy... The church leadership a bunch of traitors?

Wiki...

The Protestant Episcopal Church in the Confederate States of America was an Anglican Christian denomination which existed from 1861 to 1865. It was formed by Southern dioceses of the Episcopal Church in the United States during the American Civil War. When the Southern states seceded from the Union and established the Confederate States of America, it was not unusual for Christian churches to split along national lines also. The Episcopalians were different as their separation was made only after the Confederacy was created and ended within six months of the South's surrender when Southern Episcopalians reunited with their counterparts in the North.[1]

The Book of Common Prayer Confederate States of America
During the Civil War, the Episcopal Church in the Confederate States was temporarily separated from the rest of the Episcopal Church. There were three complete printings of a Confederate Prayer Book, all done in London, and none apparently formallly authorized. They had to be smuggled into the South, and only one of the printings actually made it through the blockade, the other two being captured and mostly destroyed. I have never seen a copy of a Confederate BCP, but my understanding is that they were completely identical to the 1789 BCP, with the exception of the necessary changes in prayers for the President and Congress. Additionally, a number of partial Books of Common Prayer were printed locally.

http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1789/csa.htm
 
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5fish

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Stained Glass of William Meade and Robert E Lee... They knew each other, well... He was a Bishop in the Confederate Episcopal church...

Wiki...

Rt.Rev. Meade fought against Virginians who threatened secession after the election of President Abraham Lincoln, preaching at Millwood against the looming civil war on June 13, nearly two months after Virginia's secession.[33] Still, Meade believed in state's rights and acquiesced in his beloved Commonwealth's ultimate decision to secede. Although near retirement (John Johnshaving become his suffragan decades earlier), Meade became a leading figure in the Protestant Episcopal Church in the Confederate States of America. In 1859, shortly after John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry (not very far down the historic Shenandoah Valley road from Meade's familial home and farm), the Episcopal Church held its General Convention in Richmond. There, the elderly Rt. Rev. Meade helped other southern bishops consecrate Henry Champlin Lay as a missionary bishop of the Southwest. Two years later, Bishop Meade as the senior seceding bishop, led the convention in Columbia, South Carolina in October 1861, which drew up the incorporation documents. However, he did not travel to Montgomery, Alabama for the preliminary organizational meeting July 3–6, 1861.[34] Thus, Bishop Stephen Elliott of Georgia became the Presiding Bishop of the Confederate Episcopal Church.

In March 6, 1862, the elderly and infirm bishop returned to Richmond for the last time in order to assist his suffragan and Bishop Elliott in consecrating Rev. Wilmer's son, Richard Hooker Wilmer, as bishop of Alabama at St. Paul's Church. Bishop Meade had traveled by train from Gordonsville, along with his son, Rev. Richard K. Meade, although coughing and obviously ill. He arrived at the church in time for the consecration, but afterward was confined to bed at a friend's home, and died days later.[35] According to tradition, the dying Virginia bishop gave his last blessing to Confederate General Robert E. Lee, whom he had long known from the days both had lived and worshiped in Alexandria, and who was married to the daughter of his sister Ann Page's best friend. Bishop Meade was reputedly the only man who customarily called the general by his first name.
 

5fish

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It seems as if a statue is torn down. We are outraged but if a stained glass window is removed that is okay... You lost Causers cannot have it both ways... either its all an outrage or none of it is an outrage...
 
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Youngblood

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It seems as if a statue is torn down. We are outraged but if a stained glass window is removed that is okay... You lost Causers cannot have it both ways... either its all an outrage or none of it is an outrage...
I did not see anyone saying it was ok to take down stained glass but not ok to take down a statue. Its sad and angering to see both. They also removed the little brass plates on the church pews that said basically ‘this is where RE Lee sat’ and the one for ‘this is where George Washington sat’.

If youre more referring to why your thread isnt getting much traffic, id guess because it will just be locked or moved to moderated forum to die.
 
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archieclement

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It seems as if a statue is torn down. We are outraged but if a stained glass window is removed that is okay... You lost Causers cannot have it both ways... either its all an outrage or none of it is an outrage...
You do realize churches are private property? No one should be upset if a Confederate flag, statue, or window is either taken down, or put up in the case of the interstate flags on private property...... its up to the owner, not the public, its part of being a free country......
 

5fish

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You do realize churches are private property
Yes, it is private property but it the principle of wiping uncomfortable away. Should no the church own up to it Confederate past instead of just sweeping it under the rug... If you are a believer in Confederate history should be protected then you should be outrage even when private institutions bury their Confederate past... The church is hiding from its past...
 

archieclement

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??? Makes no sense to me, not everyone who had Tory or CS ancestors is required to fly a Union Jack Or CS flag , nor Union ancestors a US flag, once again people are free to acknowledge/honor ones ancestors/history or not, its not some requirement or mandatory,

Also its a little disingenuous to attach their to it. The history of Booth Farms for example includes slavery, I personally choose to acknowledge it, however it has little to do with MY history personally as during my 52 years, slavery has never been attached to it at all..........

If I choose to not publicly acknowledge the history of the farm, I don't see how I would be hiding from anything, as I never had anything to do with it anyway.......
 
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archieclement

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You then agree when local governments choose to remove a confederate monuments. It okay because it's thier community and if they want it remove its okay...
No I may or may not agree depending on situation, however its entirely appropriate to voice ones opinion on a public matter......however I feel no need to interject in what you personally decide to do in your home or church.....
 
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