Spencer Carbine Questions

Matt90

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Jul 26, 2018
Hey guys!

I just acquired a Spencer Carbine, but have a few questions about the acceptance stamps on the stock and barrel. The carbine is an M1865 model and is numbered 18670. Is this carbine listed at all? Would it be possible to determine approx date of manufacture?

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Is this Erskin Allin’s stamp From Springfield Arsenal?
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Does anyone know what the “DAP” means?
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The letters GGHA or EGHA are stamped on the barrel - any ideas?

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Thanks!
 

ucvrelics

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The DAP is Dwight A. Perkins. Below are the SRS # that start with 186. Its not listed. Yours was made in mid to late 1864. It appears to have a Stabler cutoff which was installed in front of the trigger order to use the weapon to single shot. I can't see The letters GGHA or EGHA
18616 60C 64CO L 2ND MICH VOL CAV
18632 60C 030164CO M 12TH ILL VOL CAV (ISSUED)
18641 60C 030164CO M 12TH ILL VOL CAV (ISSUED)
18672 60C 030164CO M 12TH ILL VOL CAV (ISSUED)
18682 60C 64CO L 2ND MICH VOL CAV
18684 60C 64CO L 2ND MICH VOL CAV
18686 60C 030164CO M 12TH ILL VOL CAV (ISSUED)
18691 60C 64CO D 12TH ILL VOL CAV
18695 60C 64CO A 2ND MICH VOL CAV
 

Matt90

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Jul 26, 2018
Thank you very much for the info! Could this carbine have been made/issued in 1864 if it’s an M1865 pattern? Alternatively could it be an 1860 pattern that was updated to an 1865 pattern?
 
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bobinwmass

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It is my understanding the Model 1865 was made in 1865-1866 and had their own serial number range of 1 - 23000. I think the serial number info given above is for the earlier Model 1860 carbine.
 

Jeff in Ohio

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The Spencers made by Burnside also had their own serial number range. Model 1865s and the Burnside made Spencers are the same, updated pattern, and none of that model were made in time to have been used in the Civil War.
 

Matt90

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Jul 26, 2018
Thanks for the help! I have tried to take a better picture of what looks like "GGHA" on the left side of the barrel above the stockline. It is very difficult to photograph.

Capture.JPG
 

ucvrelics

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You have a model 1860 with the 65 conversions. The barrel should be 22 inches and the barrel will be bored and sleeved with 3 groove rifling. The smooth magazine thumbstall was replaced with a ribbed surface. However, since the point of the conversion was to disable the magazine, either magazine can be found. The straight edge of the hammer was milled to a bevel eliminating the edge protruding from the side of the receiver, however the 1865 beveled hammer was the same size as the 1860 straight hammer, so either can be found. Serial numbers run to about 67,000, all were manufactured before 1865 about 10,000 were modified in 1865.
 

ucvrelics

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The so called 56 / 56 cartridge was originally used and had a tendency to jam, this cartridge fitted over the bullet was straight, however the bullet and bore are smaller at approximately .52 caliber. The straight cartridge was also redesigned to a tapered cartridge 56 / 52 or 56 / 50, the bullet was smaller but still about .52 cal.
 

Matt90

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Jul 26, 2018
You have a model 1860 with the 65 conversions. The barrel should be 22 inches and the barrel will be bored and sleeved with 3 groove rifling. The smooth magazine thumbstall was replaced with a ribbed surface. However, since the point of the conversion was to disable the magazine, either magazine can be found. The straight edge of the hammer was milled to a bevel eliminating the edge protruding from the side of the receiver, however the 1865 beveled hammer was the same size as the 1860 straight hammer, so either can be found. Serial numbers run to about 67,000, all were manufactured before 1865 about 10,000 were modified in 1865.

Good morning,

Thanks for the info! I just measured and the barrel is 20 inches and has 6 groove rifling. The barrel doesnt appear to have a liner either. Is it possible this is a "new" barrel that was installed on an 1860 receiver in the 1865ish period?
 

Jeff in Ohio

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Oct 17, 2015
Since the parts of your carbine visible in your photos are all consistent with the Model 1865 carbine (rear sight, length of barrel, beveled hammer) and the barrel is marked "Model 1865," you have a Model 1865 and not a refurbished Model 1860 redone to the newer specifications of the Model 1865.
When redone, the earlier Model 1860s did sometimes have the later style hammers and magazine tubes (not visible on your photos) installed, not to make them consistent with the new models, but because the old parts were worn or damaged. But I have never heard of a whole new shorter barrel marked "MODEL 1865" added and serial numbered to match the receiver, although I suppose anything could have happened a time or two over the years.
 

ucvrelics

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Since the parts of your carbine visible in your photos are all consistent with the Model 1865 carbine (rear sight, length of barrel, beveled hammer) and the barrel is marked "Model 1865," you have a Model 1865 and not a refurbished Model 1860 redone to the newer specifications of the Model 1865.
When redone, the earlier Model 1860s did sometimes have the later style hammers and magazine tubes (not visible on your photos) installed, not to make them consistent with the new models, but because the old parts were worn or damaged. But I have never heard of a whole new shorter barrel marked "MODEL 1865" added and serial numbered to match the receiver, although I suppose anything could have happened a time or two over the years.
I have to disagree as the receiver is an 1860 model receiver and not an 1865. The 65's were marked SPENCER REPEATING RIFLE / PAT'D MARCH 6, 1860 / MANUF'D AT PROV.R.I. / BY BURNSIDE RIFLE CO. Additional vertical stamping MODEL / 1865 and the 1860 was marked as this one is. The 65 did not have 6 groove rifling but was 3. Also, serial # under the barrel is not a factory placed #
 

Matt90

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Jul 26, 2018
Thanks for the all the info! Were the 1865 carbines made by the Spencer factory also using 6 groove rifling or were they all 3?
 

Jeff in Ohio

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Oct 17, 2015
There were 2 makers for the Model 1865. Only the ones made by the Burnside Company were stamped with Burnside. The ones made at the Spencer factory were stamped exactly as the Model 1860 on the receiver, but the barrel is marked Model 1865.

Bob has stated it correctly. The serial range on the 1860s was up to serial 61,000 or so, the Model 1865, also made by Spencer, had a separate serial range, from serial 1 up to about 23,000 with same frame markings as the Model 1860, but with addition of that stamping on the barrel MODEL 1865, and the Model 1865 made by Burnside was in yet a separate range, from serial 1 up to about 34,000, with a different frame marking mentioning Burnside.

Lots of the 1860s were rebuilt, and the 1865s saw hard service and many were arsenal reconditioned. So some 1860s will have bits and pieces of the model 1865 installed. I have a Model 1860 Spencer carbine refurbished with a Model 1865 style hammer and loading tube cover and stabler cut off, but still the longer barrel and distinctive rear sight of the Model 1860 was retained. Mine is marked for Company K of the famous Buffalo Soldier Tenth Cavalry.
 

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