Breechldrs Spencer Carbine Case Study: Model 1860 or Model 1865?

Texas Johnny

Corporal
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Location
Texas
Way back in 1984 I purchased my very first Civil War firearm from a fellow collector. I bought what I was told was a Model 1860 Spencer repeating carbine. I paid a “whopping” $175 for this well-worn and well used carbine. I didn’t add much to my Civil War collection while I was busy raising a family and putting kids through college. A few years ago, I retired and started to expand my firearms collection. I became very interested in carbines from the era.

I acquired “another” Spencer Model 1860 carbine and realized that it was somewhat different from my original Spencer. After doing some research I learned that there was a Model 1865 Spencer carbine which was produced at the very end of the war. The major differences were:

Model 1860 Model 1865

Barrel Length 22” 20”

Caliber .52 .50

Cartridge 56-56 56-50

Barrel Stamp None "M1865"

Rear Sight Graduated to 800 Yds Graduated to 900 Yds

Magazine Cut-off None Stabler Cut-off


After my research, I realized that my original Spencer is not a Model 1860, but is a Model 1865, even though it does not have all the characteristics of the Model 1865 it has many of them. My original Spencer is .50 caliber, has a 20-inch barrel, and has the Model 1865 type rear sight. It does not have the Stabler Cut-off or the “M1865” barrel stamp, although the barrel stamp may have just worn off and is no longer visible.

I acquired a copy of Roy Marcot’s Spencer Repeating Arms, which is the “Bible” for Spencer carbines and learned that many of the earlier Model 1865 Spencer carbines did not have the Stabler Cut-off (which allowed for manually loading a single cartridge). In fact, of all the Model 1865 Spencer carbines, 6,457 did not have the Stabler Cut-off with 12,502 including the cut-off. The serial number on mine is visible, and it is in the 2000s. I learned from Marcot that most of the 1 to 2,500 Model 1865 serial numbers were assigned to Spencer rifles, with the carbine serial numbers beginning after that. Assuming that is accurate it makes mine a very early Model 1865 and in fact it would have been in the second batch of Model 1865 Spencer carbines shipped to the U.S. Ordnance Department on April 12, 1865.

The photos show the carbine from different perspectives. Also shown is a side by side of the Model 1860 rear sight (on the left), from my other Spencer carbine, next to the Model 1865 rear sight (on the right). These are just my conclusions; I would be interested if someone has any additional insight or different conclusions. Thanks!

DSC_0071-CUTOUT and REVISED.jpg


DSC_0061-CUTOUT.jpg


DSC_0077-CUTOUT.jpg


DSC_0069-CUTOUT.jpg


Model 1860 Rear Sight vs Model 1865.jpg
 
Does the other one have this type load tube.
1579575047897.png
 
You may have what we call the transition model. Is the underside of the hammer face flat or beveled.
 
I believe you have an 1860 with 1865 mods. There were many of these done in the transition period. The slotted ammo tube was an 1865 feature that got on a few 1860/1865 mods. They also had both sight types as well. On the hammer, the mods had the big fat 1860 hammer milled down and the 1865 was made with the beveled hammer. The lack of cartouches is common as the were sanded off when they did the reworks.
 
I believe you have an 1860 with 1865 mods. There were many of these done in the transition period. The slotted ammo tube was an 1865 feature that got on a few 1860/1865 mods. They also had both sight types as well. On the hammer, the mods had the big fat 1860 hammer milled down and the 1865 was made with the beveled hammer. The lack of cartouches is common as the were sanded off when they did the reworks.
Thank you for your input, I appreciate both your time an your expertise!
 
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