1. Welcome to the CivilWarTalk, a forum for questions and discussions about the American Civil War! Become a member today for full access to all of our resources, it's fast, simple, and absolutely free!
Dismiss Notice
Join and Become a Patron at CivilWarTalk!
Support this site with a monthly or yearly subscription! Active Patrons get to browse the site Ad free!
START BY JOINING NOW!

Spangler Meadow ca. 1890 T&N

Discussion in 'Battle of Gettysburg' started by Gettysburg Greg, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. Gettysburg Greg

    Gettysburg Greg Corporal

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    491
    Location:
    Decatur, Illinois
    meadow2.jpg

    The top photo is circa 1890 and shows the Spangler Meadow with the completely barren Powers Hill in the background. The meadow in the foreground is where the futile attack of the 27th Indiana took place. The view is from behind a stone wall that was occupied by an unseen Confederate regiment. The top arrow points out the location of the 27th's monument where the charge began. The lower arrow marks the location of the advance marker only 90 yards away. It was here that the charge was turned back after the 27th suffered over 100 casualties. Unfortunately, when I took the now photo a couple of summers ago, the meadow was overgrown so the advance marker isn't visible. However, I pointed out the regimental monument to show the same orientation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2017

  2. (Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
  3. Warren

    Warren Private

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    110
    The 27th Indiana didn't get very far before being turned back, did they? That's such a short distance to suffer that number of casualties...
     
  4. JohnW.

    JohnW. First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,039
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    I believe the 27th Indiana and the 2nd Massachusetts were pretty well slaughtered there on July 3rd.

    The Battle of Gettysburg - Friday July 3, 1863
    Spangler's Spring - The 27th Indiana & the 2nd Massachusetts
    [​IMG]

    On the morning of July 2, 1863, the men of the 12th Corps were determine to take back the earthworks taken by the Confederates the previous night. The men of the Confederate 2nd Corps watched their union counterparts warily from the tree line behind the monument pictured. Believing that the Confederates in his front held a vulnerable position, Colonel Silas Colgrove ordered the 27th Indiana forward. Savaged by a hailstorm of Southern lead, the Hoosiers' grit only allowed them to travel half way across this open field. With appalling loss, they were forced to retreat, losing about a third of their men with no gain to warrant their sacrifice. [33]
    [​IMG]
    "The only possible chance I had to advance was to carry his position by storming it. I selected the Second Massachusetts and Twenty-seventh Indiana for the work, and ordered the Second Massachusetts to charge the works in front of their position; the Twenty-seventh, as soon as they should gain the open ground, to oblique to the right and carry the position held in the ledges of rocks. At the command. "Forward, double-quick!" our breastworks were cleared, and both regiments, with deafening cheers, sprang forward. They had scarcely gained the open ground when they were met with one of the most terrible fires I have ever witnessed. Up to this time the enemy had remained entirely concealed. It had been impossible to tell anything about his strength in our immediate front, but it was now clearly ascertained that he had massed a heavy force at that point. It seemed that the two regiments were devoted to destruction. Undaunted, on they charged, officers leading and cheering their men.

    [​IMG]
    The Second Massachusetts succeeded in clearing the open ground to the left of the breastworks. The Twenty-seventh Indiana, having obliged to the right, had nearly double the distance to traverse to gain the position of the enemy, but on it went; at every volley of the enemy, gaps were being cut through its ranks. It became evident to me that scarcely a man could live to gain the position of the enemy. I ordered the regiment to fall back behind the breastworks, which it did. The Second Massachusetts was also overpowered by numbers, and had to fall back. The Twenty-seventh had scarcely gained the breastworks when the rebels in turn charged, with the intention of carrying our works. As soon as they had fairly gained the open ground, I ordered fire to be opened upon them, the Third Wisconsin, Twenty-seventh Indiana, and part of the Thirteenth New Jersey firing from the breastworks; the Second Massachusetts, from the new position on the left, had an enfilading fire upon them. At the first fire they were completely checked, and at the second they broke in confusion and fled, leaving their dead and wounded upon the field." - Colonel Silas Colgrove. [5]

    [​IMG]
    To your left you see the marker noting the point of advance reached by the 27th Indiana. This marker is situated in the open field about half way between the 27th monument and the Confederate works in the tree line in the distance. The marker reads simply, "27th Indiana Infantry. This marks the farthest point gained by the regiment in its charge at 6am July 3D, 1863 on the works at the base of the hill behind this tablet. Four color bearers were killed and four were wounded."




    Courtesy of: http://www.brotherswar.com/Gettysburg-3j.htm
     
  5. Bee

    Bee 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,330
    Auxiliary brain @PeterT and I really liked this area. Peter, do you remember if we were in this specific spot?
     
    William G Hendry and JohnW. like this.
  6. Rebforever

    Rebforever Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,625
    Isn't Spangler Spring to the right out of picture?

    The left end of the rock fence stops at Rock Creek?
     
  7. PeterT

    PeterT 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Your wish is my command ...

    This has to be close to the spot. I took this shot and then turned around and took a shot of the marker pictured here too.

    IMG_1346.JPG

    IMG_1347.JPG
     
  8. Bee

    Bee 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,330
    @PeterT never disappoints: I remember the rocks (of course) Excellent that you took a picture of the marker, too!
     
    William G Hendry, PeterT and JohnW. like this.
  9. Tom Elmore

    Tom Elmore First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,217
    The time of the attack is subject to much dispute. I favor a few minutes before 5 a.m. When the attack was launched, the stone wall on the north end of the swale was held only by a portion of the 2nd Virginia, separated from Steuart's left wing. However, Smith's brigade was just then moving up to fill the gap at the wall, with the 49th Virginia in the lead, followed by the 52nd Virginia. It was the 49th Virginia that played the most significant role in the repulse of the 27th Indiana, and it was the 49th Virginia that soon counterattacked across the same field and was in turn repulsed. I figure the position of the observer in the above (post #1) photographs is close to where the left of the 49th Virginia, and the right of the 2nd Virginia, rested.

    Not far off the left flank of the 2nd Massachusetts at its furthest advance was the large but untried 1st Maryland (Union) Potomac Home Brigade (regiment), which then occupied the south edge of Pardee field, with its right wing having moved briefly further into the woods on the east side of Pardee field.
     
  10. PeterT

    PeterT 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    I have a picture of you and @Nathanb1 almost at this spot. Let me know if you want me to post it. (Rather seek permission than forgiveness)
     
  11. Gettysburg Greg

    Gettysburg Greg Corporal

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    491
    Location:
    Decatur, Illinois
    Correct on both.
     
  12. Gettysburg Greg

    Gettysburg Greg Corporal

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    491
    Location:
    Decatur, Illinois
    @Bee and @PeterT , et al, here is an map on which I identified the landmarks mentioned in the OP. The camera position for the photo would be right where the "a" is in the label "Stonewall".
    spangler map.jpg
     
  13. Rebforever

    Rebforever Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,625
    My G-Grand was behind that rock wall in "extra" Billy Smith's 52nd.
    In the upper right of the top picture are two hickory trees that some time back were considered to be witness trees as they remain there today?
    Has there been any declaration made on that subject you know of?

    Thanks.
     
  14. Tom Elmore

    Tom Elmore First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,217
    Rebforever, the 52nd Virginia came in behind the 49th, so your ancestor might have been at or near the spot where the post #1 photographs were taken.
     
  15. Rebforever

    Rebforever Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,625
    I have a pic of my G-son standing at that exact spot!

    Thanks, Tom. Any news about the Hickory trees?
     
  16. Wallyfish

    Wallyfish Sergeant Trivia Game Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    Greensburg, Pa
    Nice. I always got a laugh from the marker at Spanglers Spring because they actually show a fish hook on their map.

    I have mentioned in other posts that I enjoy visiting Gettysburg from November through March. March is my favorite month as the grass and brush has been beaten down by winter and without leaves, the sightlines are great.

    Gettysburg is splendid in summer, but you learn so much more in cold months.

    Great post.
     
  17. Bee

    Bee 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,330
    Permission granted:bee:
     
    Frums, PeterT, Waterloo50 and 2 others like this.
  18. Rebforever

    Rebforever Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,625
    You do tours? Individuals?etc.
     
    JohnW. likes this.
  19. Wallyfish

    Wallyfish Sergeant Trivia Game Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    Greensburg, Pa
    Kind of.

    I have been taking freinds, family and coworkers to Gettysburg for years. I am well read on Gettysburg, but attempting to memorize all the actions is something I simply can't do. I use a couple map books with the regiments shown only if I have to. I normally determine an itinerary and put notes gathered from books and the internet on index cards. I have found most people aren't terribly interested in regiments and casualty statistics. Typically they want to see Picket's Charge and the 20th Maine. I have 2 buddies that I take frequently that are into the details of Gettysburg. So they are challenging to come up with something new. Trust me, I could not pass a Gettysburg License Guide test. But I try.

    I can navigate myself around the battlefield really well. I probably have over 120 days on the battlefield over the years.
    The only place I haven't been to is Neill Avenue. It is called Lost Avenue for a reason. I love taking people to places they have never been to. Some are in wide open areas such as the 1st Minnesota monument which remarkably not many know about their day 2 action. Others are out of the way spots with interesting tales (such as the Rose Farm rocks, "DA" rock,etc).

    Everytime I see Greg's postings it feels like I am going home. I have seen most of the Then photos ( but not many of the art work he uses) over the years. But when he posts the now photos, it seems like I am standing right there.

    It does appear that Greg's photos are taken in the summer. But as I stated above, summer brings weeds, brush and leaves which obscures the sight lines. The NPS has removed trees and brush which helps a lot but you need the cold weather months to really see things.

    Take a look back at Greg's same sharpshooter post. His now rock photo was taken with high weed growth. The NPS has cleaned brush up in that area. Scroll down and look at my March '16 photo of that rock. That rock is completely exposed showing it in its full glory.

    Unfortunately I couldn't make it to last years CWT Gettysburg's gathering. I would love to spend time on the battlefield with the experts found here. Hopefully I can attend a future gathering. I hope that one day a March or November CWT gathering could be made so people could see Gettysburg without its summer bloom.

    I live 140 miles west of Gettysburg so it is an easy day trip for me. I would be glad to meet people on the battlefield anytime the schedules allow. Long rambling post, sorry, but I am retired.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  20. PeterT

    PeterT 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Here you are ....

    IMG_1351.JPG
     
  21. Bee

    Bee 2nd Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,330
    [saved to Gettysburg2016 picture collection]

    Thank you, Peter :smile:
     
    PeterT and JohnW. like this.

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Loading...

Share This Page


(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)