1. Welcome to the CivilWarTalk, a forum for questions and discussions about the American Civil War! Become a member today for full access to all of our resources, it's fast, simple, and absolutely free!
Dismiss Notice
Join and Become a Patron at CivilWarTalk!
Support this site with a monthly or yearly subscription! Active Patrons get to browse the site Ad free!
START BY JOINING NOW!

Southern propaganda featuring miscegenation

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by kepi, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. kepi

    kepi First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,372
    Location:
    United States of America
    How prominent was pre-secession rhetoric & propaganda featuring miscegenation as a way to discredit Republicans and/or push for disunion? Was this concept something seen mostly pre-secession or was it widely used during the war?
     
    Joshism, JohnW. and Pat Young like this.

  2. (Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
  3. Harvey Johnson

    Harvey Johnson Sergeant

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    618
    Yankees originated this "Southern Propaganda" term during the Civil War.

    From the Wikipedia "Miscegenation" article:

    The word was coined in an anonymous propaganda pamphlet published in New York City in December 1863, during the American Civil War. The pamphlet was entitled Miscegenation: The Theory of the Blending of the Races, Applied to the American White Man and Negro.​
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    JohnW. and uaskme like this.
  4. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Major

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,035
    Location:
    los angeles ca
    Was it the evil Yankees that forced Southern legislators to make miscegenation a crime until the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed it in Loving v. Virginia 1967? Weren't miscegenation laws already enacted in the South well before the nefarious article of 1863.
    Did some non Southern states have miscegenation laws? Yes but some did not well before the Civil War. Those that did allowed inter racial sex well before the 1960s.
    Leftyhunter
     
    Malingerer, major bill and Bee like this.
  5. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Major

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,035
    Location:
    los angeles ca
    I don't know about this business of miscegenation being propaganda if slaves were freed and black people became social equals of whites. If Jefferson Davis and his friends could just come back to life for a day and visit major Southern maternity wards and pre schools. :hug:
    Leftyhunter
     
    JohnW. likes this.
  6. major bill

    major bill Major Forum Host

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    8,145
    Probably there was some interracial sexual relations prior to the Civil War. Though possibly more that have involved white males and black females.
     
    Joshism and JohnW. like this.
  7. Pat Young

    Pat Young Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,131
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    The pamphlet Miscegenation: The Theory of the Blending of the Races, Applied to the American White Man and Negro was written by newspapermen sympathetic to the Democrats. The pamphlet was designed to appear to have been an abolitionist tract and was supposed to arouse Northern voters against Lincoln. The pamphlet particularly targeted the Irish.
     
    Joshism, kepi, JohnW. and 3 others like this.
  8. Pat Young

    Pat Young Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,131
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
  9. Pat Young

    Pat Young Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,131
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    So, the term "miscegenation" was coined by two New York journalists sympathetic to the Peace Democrats. The threat of "race mixing" was raised many times before the term "miscegenation" was coined.
     
  10. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Major

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,035
    Location:
    los angeles ca
    No p
    No probably about it. @MattL if I am not mistaken has a lot of DNA analysis . If I remember correctly their was a surprisingly large amount of children who had black fathers snd white mothers. The white mothers were mostly indentured servants who were impregnated before strict miscegenation laws were passed. One of them from the first slave John Punch became the Gggg grand mother of President Barack Obama. Michelle Obama is partially descended from Georgia slave owners. Hopefully @MattL can share a few of his basic statistics. There of course has always been inter- racial sex and of course children. The Confederates were right as rain in that once social equality is achieved " guess who is coming home to dinner"
    Leftyhunter
     
  11. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Major

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,035
    Location:
    los angeles ca
    My friend check out @Pat Young post # 7 he has a map that shows some states never had miscegenation laws and some got rid of them prior to 1887 and some later then that . Interesting that it took the Southern Staes until June 8th 1967 to get rid of theirs and only because of the U.S> Supreme Court. One would think after tens of thousands of black Conferates fought ( or so you say) Confederacy their would be no Southern micegenation laws. Go figure.
    Leftyhunter
     
    novushomus and JohnW. like this.
  12. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Major

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,035
    Location:
    los angeles ca
    Ironically the writer's of said propaganda piece would of not been far of the mark had they visted a disco from say the 1970s onward. The part of Irish inferiority of course is pure BS.
    Leftyhunter
     
    JohnW., MattL and Pat Young like this.
  13. Pat Young

    Pat Young Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,131
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    When you read the pamphlet today, it seems very modern!
     
    leftyhunter, JohnW. and MattL like this.
  14. Burning Billy

    Burning Billy Corporal

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    401
    In Memoir of a Revolutionary Soldier: The Narrative of Joseph Plumb Martin the author briefly mentions stepping into an inn or tavern in Pennsylvania (IIRC) that was owned and operated by a free black man married to a white woman. Since he had been a white soldier in the 18th Century and was writing for a white 19th Century audience he isn't politically correct and frames the episode as a bizarre incident he encountered during his war years, but it is an example of an interracial relationship in the US before it was the US, and that had no ties to slavery.

    Martin's account of his service during the American Revolution is a great read by the way, for any here that have at least a passing interest in that war and what is what like for the rebel rank-and-file.
     
    kepi, leftyhunter and JohnW. like this.
  15. MattL

    MattL First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,224
    You can refer to here for in depth info
    http://civilwartalk.com/threads/slavery-and-rape.128942/

    Though the rough of it is that 16.7% of modern African American DNA is European. In a two phase model the first pulse of European DNA introduces is 1740 and the second phase in 1863, basically the introduction ending right smack around the end of the Civil War when slavery ended and there was actually a lot less intermixing.

    To further back this up, analyzing X DNA shows that 28.6% of African American's DNA comes from European males while only 5.2% came from European females. This DNA again being mostly introduced before the end of slavery when the vast majority of Blacks were in the South and slaves.

    Those stats in modern African Americans are simply astounding in my opinion. The amount of white female DNA introduced into African Americans is not insignificant either, though represents only about 18% of the European DNA introduced. Many records do survive of white women having mulatto bastards and them being bound out, they were often in a gray area and their lots in life varied on who they were bound to and who was in charge locally.

    As you point out early on, while racial slavery was being cemented, there was some intermixing. Some educated whites resisted rules against interracial marriage.

    In 1699 a George Ivey son of a white planter and influential Virginia family submitted a petition (with others) to repeal the 1691 law banning interracial marriage
    https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/essays/bennettroad.html

    Ironically I have two possible connections to this George Ivey. His wife was an Elizabeth Langley possibly a cousin up my paternal Langley ancestry (my ancestry stops in South Carolina, most trees connect it back to that Langley family).

    Ironically on my maternal ancestry one of my sources of African DNA is an Black African male who sired men with the surname Busby and Ivey. Busby male cousins have been tested and come up Sub-Saharan African in their Y DNA and match other African descended (paternally) Iveys (meaning the Busbys and Iveys likely share a common male ancestor between both). Both lines were passing for white in the 1700s and likely converge somehow connected to this George Ivey. Obviously seeing that George submitted such a petition has peaked descendants interests... Maybe he was submitted it for a sister, relative, etc.

    Such scenarios even early on were pretty rare it would seem, though the DNA and history shows non-slave based interactions or African male DNA input down into "Whites" did happen at much smaller levels.
     
  16. RobertP

    RobertP Major

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    7,572
    Location:
    on the long winding road
    Don't pat yourself on the back too hard, Lefty. California's miscegenation law was overturned in 1948.
     
  17. leftyhunter

    leftyhunter Major

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    8,035
    Location:
    los angeles ca
    True but a beat of 18 years is sill a beat.
    California is not perfect nor zhould it alwayz be upheld az a model but on this score we get a C- not an F.
    Leftyhunter
     
  18. RobertP

    RobertP Major

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    7,572
    Location:
    on the long winding road
    Why do I feel the goal posts are moving?
     
    Rebforever and Andersonh1 like this.
  19. uaskme

    uaskme Corporal

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    426
    Peace Democrats were Yankees, talking to other Yankees. Northern Whites were just as concerned about Race Mixing as Southern Whites. Lincoln talked of Amalgamation in his political Speeches. It was 1 of his and the Antislavery groups reason to exclude Blacks from the Territories.

    Republicans in 1860 didn't think Blacks or Irish had the capabilities to be Free Laborers.
     
    Rebforever likes this.
  20. Pat Young

    Pat Young Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,131
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Two New York (not Yankee) anti-war newspaper writers invented this term as part of their hoax to embarrass the president. Respecting the OP, this is supporting evidence that raising fears of miscegenation was a tool in the struggle against Lincoln.

    Do you have other evidence that it was or was not used?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    Bee and O' Be Joyful like this.
  21. uaskme

    uaskme Corporal

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    Messages:
    426
    It was a Northern fear just as it was a Southern Fear. That is the Point. Northerns were just as concerned about the color line as the Southerners.

    So, what is your definition of a Yankee in 1860. You and others seem to eliminate Democrats. Here you eliminate NY, because they are Democrat I Suspect. You seem to eliminate a large segment of the Republicans which 1/4 were former Democrats.
     
    Rebforever likes this.

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
Loading...

Share This Page


(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)