Discussion South Carolina: New Bill introduced for a monument to Black Confederates

Viper21

Brigadier General
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But joining the UDC is going beyond merely acknowledging a connection to the confederacy. It's crossing into honoring the confederacy, and I can imagine how some might find the idea of a black person honoring the confederacy to be upsetting.

The original claim was that even acknowledging a connection to the confederacy would put a black person in danger.
So what. That's their business. I find the act of attacking women cowardly. What was shared with me, made my blood boil.

Does freedom of expression only apply if you agree with said expression..? What happened to "live & let live". "Different strokes for different folks"..?

Personally, I don't care who, what, or how, you honor anything, or anyone. That's up to you in my opinion. My only exception would be, actual violence, or threats of violence. I'm of the opinion that you can believe, or honor stuff I find absurd, or extremely offensive, & still be a good person. We can even be friends with differing views/opinions.
 

DanSBHawk

Captain
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May 8, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
So what. That's their business. I find the act of attacking women cowardly. What was shared with me, made my blood boil.

Does freedom of expression only apply if you agree with said expression..? What happened to "live & let live". "Different strokes for different folks"..?

Personally, I don't care who, what, or how, you honor anything, or anyone. That's up to you in my opinion. My only exception would be, actual violence, or threats of violence. I'm of the opinion that you can believe, or honor stuff I find absurd, or extremely offensive, & still be a good person. We can even be friends with differing views/opinions.
I don't disagree with any of that. People in this country honor many things that other people might consider offensive. I've never endorsed using threats or violence, and I believe in freedom of expression.

On the other hand, there are still black people living that remember segregation and lynchings, so I'm not going to judge the emotions that blacks have towards the honoring of the confederacy.
 
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Horrido67

Private
Joined
Sep 29, 2019
But joining the UDC is going beyond merely acknowledging a connection to the confederacy. It's crossing into honoring the confederacy, and I can imagine how some might find the idea of a black person honoring the confederacy to be upsetting.

The original claim was that even acknowledging a connection to the confederacy would put a black person in danger.

I think the line between two isn't that clear. If a black woman wants to join the UDC to celebrate & honor her enslaved ancestor as a Confederate who accompanied his Confederate master during the War of the Rebellion, I believe she should be encouraged to do so. The UDC generally no long promotes racial bigotry and pro-slavery agenda. They have an extensive record of Confederate veterans and their history, which might be helpful to new members who are interested in their ancestors.

However, I could see why some black people may find this troublesome and offensive as the UDC has history of presenting chattel slavery as a benevolent institution by promoting the stories of 'loyal and faithful slaves'.

I think it is all about perception.
 

AshleyMel

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Good morning y'all. I'm just now reading these post - I'm on California time. I do want to be aware of the scope of the posts and I don't want to do that thing with multiple strings of posts- we are definitely drifting from the OP, but again, I do feel there needs to be clarity.

Good to know that now not all mixed-race women, like Ashley, feel that way and they somehow feel secure about themselves enough to honor their ancestors who might have been either slave-owners or supported slavery.
Through my Civil War studies, I am discovering about all of my ancestors and their places in history. I want to preserve the family history and stories I never knew I had, not glorify the wrongs.

But I am sure people like Ashley would understand that why many women of color (especially young folks of my age) don't feel comfortable or are even upset with UDC which had tried to portray slavery as a positive good or a benevolent institution in the name of honoring their Confederate forefathers in the past. Of course, I personally know this isn't mostly the case anymore. UDC members of Virginia chapters I met were wonderful women and I admire their dedication.
The Virginia UDC ladies are wonderful! I am so glad you had positive interactions with them but I would have expected nothing less.

There seems to be a view that I do not understand why people would find the history of the UDC problematic for African Americans. This view could not be further from the truth.
I'm not really sure how much further into this specific topic I want to go, this seems to concern some and it is important there be no miscommunication on this issue.
Anyone can PM me and I can discuss this in more detail.

But joining the UDC is going beyond merely acknowledging a connection to the confederacy. It's crossing into honoring the confederacy, and I can imagine how some might find the idea of a black person honoring the confederacy to be upsetting.
Absolutely not. But I am curious to why this view would be assigned to people you might not know. Woman join the UDC for their own individual personal reasons. It is important to let them speak for themselves, if they choose to. I have my reasons, which I have stated a few times on this forum. I think one has to be careful when assigning motives or explanations to how & why someone might choose to remember their ancestry. The woman Viper is speaking of in the above post is also a dear friend of mine. :wink:
Her Confederate ancestor was a free man who volunteered his services to the Confederacy. She is not doing anything improper or wrong in remembering her grandfather and if she chooses to honor him by acknowledging his role in war by joining the UDC, then it is not of anyone's concern.

On the other hand, there are still black people living that remember segregation and lynchings, so I'm not going to judge the emotions that blacks have towards the honoring of the confederacy.
I was born during the tail end of Jim Crow. I have lived this and I wish I could forget some of my experiences as a young person by some very evil and hateful people. The standard is the same for all and I would encourage everyone to not judge (or question) anyone's emotions. What is the saying about walking a mile in someone else's shoes?
 

AshleyMel

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
The members may have their own reasons for joining, but the organization honors the confederacy.
I believe we have engaged on this subject before.
:smile:
The organization is made up of the members.
I have spoken about the stated objections of the UDC.
The officers serve limited terms and the only person who can speak for the organization is the President General. That being said, eight PGs spanning 16 years reaffirmed the objectives of the UDC, one of which is " dedicated to the purpose of honoring the memory of its Confederate ancestors." I bolded that part. The Confederate States of America no longer exists, there is nothing to honor. Remembrance, preservation, education and benevolence are part of our undertakings. This is no different from other women's memorial association like the DAR.
Any narrative contrary to this, is agenda driven against the UDC.
 
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C.W. Roden

Formerly: SouthernFriedOtaku
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Location
South Carolina, USA, Earth
The official policy matters since the 'Black Confederate' myth completely contradicts with what Richmond actually did during the war and It only renders the conclusion that the Confederacy was an incompetent organization did not know what they were doing and failed to enforce their official rules.

It is regardless whether the organization in Richmond was an actual government or not. Even a terriorist group has own set of rules.
It just happened to be the official policy of CSA since slave-holding states attempted to secede from the Union over the issue of slavery. Therefore, the Confederacy did not want 'Black' in front of 'Confederates' when it comes to armed soldiers of their army up until early 1865. I 100% agree with you that veterans of the War should be honored, but I think, even for a very small number of oddballs, they should be remembered as just 'Confederates' rather than 'Black Confederates'.
The fact you would even compare the Confederate government to a terrorist group is more than telling -- oh and "terrorist" isn't spelled with two "i"s FYI.
I do agree with you that the color of a person's skin should have no bearing on the issue of how a veteran should be honored. As I quoted in my own critically acclaimed article on the subject (one that has yet to be contradicted I might add):

For me there is no difference between a Southern-born African-American like Private Henry "Dad" Brown who served as a drummer, or a 19 year old Southerner of Anglo-Celtic descent like Sergeant Richard Kirkland, or a large plantation owner and Confederate general like Wade Hampton III -- or for that matter my own Confederate ancestor, an Alabama farmer who fell in battle at Chickamauga during the course of the War. All of them wore the same uniform, fought under the same Confederate battle flag (or some variation of it), and all of them were defenders of Southern independence. None of them are worth any more, or any less than the other in my eyes; and neither are those proud descendants of any of those same Confederate veterans.

Social class, religious creed, and yes skin color, have no bearing on my views of who the Confederate veteran was.
 

unionblue

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Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
There were over 700 free blacks who were enlisted in South Carolina units and thousands of slaves did labor duty in support of the army. About 1,000 of these men were either killed in battle or died of sickness or disease. The recognition is long overdue.

"African-American Confederate Veterans Monument"

"To amend the code of laws of South Carolina, 1976, by adding Section 10-1-181 so as to provide for an African American Confederate Veterans Monument; and by adding Section 10-1-182 so as to establish an African American Confederate Veterans Monument Commission, to provide the composition of the commission, to provide the powers and duties of the commission, to establish a deadline for the submission of a proposed design and location of the monument, and to provide for the dissolution of the commission."
https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess124_2021-2022/bills/4247.htm
Any progress on this bill?
 
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