Solid Cast Brass Patriotic Picture Frame - Time Period?

MikeS0000

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Nov 11, 2016
Location
Upstate NY - The Finger Lakes Region
Hello Folks -

Been a long time, but surgeries and the covid have slowed down any collecting. Posted this in the photo section, but no takers.

Anyhow, I picked up this picture frame. Had in it a WW1 Soldier's photo. I don't see it as WW1 Period, but am not sure of when it may be from. Opening size for photo is 2'1/4" x 3-1/2+"s.

It has it all!! :nerd:From the bottom up, cannon balls, star, wreath, cannons, shields, drums, bugles, muskets, pikes, flagging engraved "UNION" and "LIBERTY", swords, Dragoon Helmets, flags and of course the American Eagle (right facing?) with arrows and olive branches. The two flags on the top have 'definite' six rows of with five stars in each. Which may be just what the mold maker could do.

May be reading a lot into it, but the 'musket' has the look of a Hall Rifle, check out the right side.

The back has some strange pointy hooks, which I couldn't figure out, but now think they are for wire to hang with.

Well, anyhow..., enjoy. I had fun just finding all the items on it. Definitely a lot to prep for casting.

A bit off topic, but any thoughts appreciated!

Thanks for looking and Best Regards!
- Mike

(New and improved photos)

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bobinwmass

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Jul 14, 2019
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Western Massachusetts
I like the looks on this one! While not sure if it is as old the Civil War itself, I could easily see this being used to display a Civil War veteran's or GAR member's photo. Here are a couple photos of one that is definitely WWI for comparison. It had my grandfather's (a WWI soldier who spent time in a German prison camp) photo in it at one time. Yours definitely looks older.

20210618_142914.jpg


20210618_142826.jpg
 
I'm thinking WWI because it appears to me that the 6 vertical stars of the LH side flag on the picture frame are even with each other. The only period that the US flag had that 6 rows of stars where all the vertical stars aligned perfectly above the other, was with the 48 star flag from 1912 to 1959.
48 Star Flag_of_the_United_States_(1912-1959).png



The Civil War era flag from 1861 to 1863 had 34 stars. Notice that the first and last vertical rows of stars do not all line up above the other.
34 Star -Flag_of_the_United_States_(1861-1863).svg.png



When West Virginia was admitted in July 1863 the flag now had 35 stars until 1865. The stars of the first and last vertical rows all line up above one another BUT there are only 5 rows of stars.
35 Star Flag_of_the_United_States_(1863-1865).svg.png



And for good measure I'll throw in an Indians War era flag from 1877 to 1890 that has 38 stars. Notice both the top and bottom row beginning and ending stars to do vertically align with the others.
38 Star -Flag_of_the_United_States_(1877–1890).svg.png
 

MikeS0000

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Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Location
Upstate NY - The Finger Lakes Region
Thanks Bob!

That is a beauty. I've seen a number of the WW1 frames, but never one with the 'Son in Service' at the top. A real treasure, especially coming down through the family!

Best Regards!
- Mike

Oh, added some new pics, my old camera does not do well inside.
I'm thinking WWI because it appears to me that the 6 vertical stars of the LH side flag on the picture frame are even with each other. The only period that the US flag had that 6 rows of stars where all the vertical stars aligned perfectly above the other, was with the 48 star flag from 1912 to 1959.
View attachment 405244


The Civil War era flag from 1861 to 1863 had 34 stars. Notice that the first and last vertical rows of stars do not all line up above the other.
View attachment 405247


When West Virginia was admitted in July 1863 the flag now had 35 stars until 1865. The stars of the first and last vertical rows all line up above one another BUT there are only 5 rows of stars.
View attachment 405248


And for good measure I'll throw in an Indians War era flag from 1877 to 1890 that has 38 stars. Notice both the top and bottom row beginning and ending stars to do vertically align with the others.
View attachment 405249


I'm been a WW1 collector for 60+ years and have a wall full of Great War frames. Nothing that comes close to this one, but it is always possibility! I've no thoughts that I've seen everything! 🙃

I'm thinking earlier though, because of the decorations. The three that make me think this are, the representation of what appears to be a Hall rifle, a Dragoon Helmet and the hanging fixture on the back. I would think it a reach for the maker to go back and find these.

It's possible the hooks are the key to dating the frame.

There was a similar flag in 1865-67 with the six stars in the first column, but then who knows what the maker intended for a number of his representations!

May never be able to pinpoint it exactly.

Many Thanks for your reply, and Best Regards!
- Mike

Flag1.png
 

James N.

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I'm thinking WWI because it appears to me that the 6 vertical stars of the LH side flag on the picture frame are even with each other. The only period that the US flag had that 6 rows of stars where all the vertical stars aligned perfectly above the other, was with the 48 star flag from 1912 to 1959.
View attachment 405244


The Civil War era flag from 1861 to 1863 had 34 stars. Notice that the first and last vertical rows of stars do not all line up above the other.
View attachment 405247


When West Virginia was admitted in July 1863 the flag now had 35 stars until 1865. The stars of the first and last vertical rows all line up above one another BUT there are only 5 rows of stars.
View attachment 405248


And for good measure I'll throw in an Indians War era flag from 1877 to 1890 that has 38 stars. Notice both the top and bottom row beginning and ending stars to do vertically align with the others.
View attachment 405249
I would add that until the later period there was no such thing as a regulation pattern, leaving flag makers free to interpret the way the stars were applied more or less to suit themselves, as evident from the one in the last post right above.
 
I would add that until the later period there was no such thing as a regulation pattern, leaving flag makers free to interpret the way the stars were applied more or less to suit themselves, as evident from the one in the last post right above.
Also one thing that bothered me after I made my above post were the brass prongs that hold the picture in place. They remind me of the same style prongs on the back of earlier belt plates.
 
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