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So Did Lincoln really violate the Constitution.

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by jgoodguy, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Time for a new discussion thread on "Did Lincoln really violate the Constitution. "
    Subject to moderation.
    Please use evidence and references where possible.

    As Host
    Please be polite.

     
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  3. rpkennedy

    rpkennedy Major

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    I think a more appropriate term would be "stretched".

    Ryan
     
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  4. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Lincoln's Constitution: an interview with Daniel Farber

     
  5. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    I agree, but violate has more punch to attract posters.
     
  6. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Lincoln's Constitution: an interview with Daniel Farber
     
  7. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Lincoln's Constitution: an interview with Daniel Farber

     
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  8. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Lincoln's Constitution: an interview with Daniel Farber
     
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  9. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Lincoln's Constitution: an interview with Daniel Farber
     
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  10. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Lincoln's Constitution: an interview with Daniel Farber
     
  11. huskerblitz

    huskerblitz Captain

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    On the issue of the suspension of habeas corpus is the one issue I think Lincoln was clearly wrong on. However, I think it goes back to the founders and how they opted to allow the suspension to occur. My issue with it stems from the entire idea that in a 'free' country a citizen can be held without a trial for a length of time under somewhat flimsy circumstances.

    Here is an article that discusses the issue more in-depth:
    https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jala/2...-writ-of-habeas-corpus?rgn=main;view=fulltext
     
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  12. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    From the above article, it is obvious that a range of opinions existed. I would be looking for a SCOTUS decision as that body is the adjudicator of Constitutionality.

    From the article:

    If I was looking for a Lincoln action overturned, then I look at the following with a note that SCOTUS waited until the war was over to rule.
    Military tribunals in the United States
     
  13. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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  14. wausaubob

    wausaubob 2nd Lieutenant

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    Yes.
    Due to the inaction of Buchanan, and the fact that Justice Taney was probably a Confederate, (Pennsylvania and Maryland) Lincoln suspended large pieces of the constitution.
    However, in 1862 and 1864, he showed the reason why he suspended the constitution. The election schedule was maintained, McClellan was a viable alternative President, Lincoln was likely to abide by a negative result and hand over power to McClellan, whom he did not like.
    Lincoln believed the US was based on the people's votes.
     
  15. Copperhead-mi

    Copperhead-mi 1st Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    As far as I know, Chief Justice Taney remained a staunch Unionist up until his death.
     
  16. wausaubob

    wausaubob 2nd Lieutenant

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    Actions speak louder than words. Taney essentially told NE their laws were unconstitutional and unless the seceeded they would become slave states. And that blacks were like mules.
     
  17. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Not sure about the Staunch Unionist. In the 1860 secession he favored consensual constitutionally protected secession and thought that States could not be forced back into the Union. IMHO he was more of a Conditional Unionist and had he been younger and in good health, he would have followed Justice John Archibald Campbell South and certainly if Maryland had seceded he would have gone with Maryland.
     
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  18. Copperhead-mi

    Copperhead-mi 1st Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    Taney also ruled in favor of the Lincoln Administration in cases during the Civil War.
     
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  19. wausaubob

    wausaubob 2nd Lieutenant

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    Significant parts of the constitution were suspended to accomplish the constitution's purpose as perceived by the Federalists:
    1. One country from the Atlantic to the limitless west, from the Great Lakes to the Gulf of Mexico.
    2. National elections of an expanding electorate would decide the main issues.
    3. The Union controlled the States, not the other way around.
    Slavery was a side issue. The main issue was creating a great world power that would be immune from further European control.
     
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  20. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    Prize Cases Being the big one
    OTOH you have Ex parte Merryman and IMHO Taney would have ruled for secession as constitutional(More exactly: States cannot be forced back into the Union) if Davis had not attacked Ft Sumter.

    Big problem for Taney is that he needs the money from his SCOTUS job to support his family. He lost a lot of money in VA bonds when VA seceded.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  21. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    I'd like to see you expand on this with some references and explanations.
     

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