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Slavery, would it have died out in the US without the war?

Discussion in 'Civil War History - General Discussion' started by unionblue, Sep 5, 2003.

  1. Elennsar

    Elennsar Colonel

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    Freddy: "Sick individual"? What's sicker about killing someone with a sword as opposed to a gun?

    Bloody Kansas was a mess and Brown certainly was part of it. But deeming him somehow unusual for that and ignoring everyone else that spilled blood is grossly unfair.
     

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  3. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    Slavery was in no way going to die out on its own in the US.

    From the Georgia Constitution of 1861: "The General Assembly shall have no power to pass laws for the emancipation of slaves." (This is the entire text of Article 2, Sec. VII, Paragraph 3.)

    From the Alabama Constitution of 1861: "No slave in this State shall be emancipated by any act done to take effect in this State, or any other country." (This is the entire text of Article IV, Section 1 (on slavery).)

    HOW was slavery to die out in this country with such laws on the books in most Southern states at the time?

    What effort, before the Civil War, was being taken by Southern States or leaders that would give the impression that slavery was going anywhere but as a permanent feature in American social and political life?

    NONE.

    Unionblue
     
  4. Vareb

    Vareb Banned

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    You forget that slavery was legal in the union Constitution, don't you? I think it was the 13th amendment that put a stop to it in the latter part of 1865 which was also voted on by the South.
     
  5. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    Vareb,

    Actually, I don't.

    But the simple fact remains, that without a Civil War lasting four terrible years, costing over 620,000 lives, slavery would still be a viable, thriving institution to this present day.

    In other words, it would not have died out, it would not have been gotten rid of by peaceful means, nor would there had been any effort by law or by custom in the South to rid itself of the institution.

    It took four years of bloody war to force it from this nation and then change the US Constitution to abolish slavery, which, as you have already observed, then voted on abolishing it.

    Unionblue
     
  6. larry_cockerham

    larry_cockerham Southern Gentleman, Lest We Forget, 2011 Honored Fallen Comrade

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    My noble friend, I would like to respectively disagree. Please see my recent posts in the Mason Dixon forum. Slavery was dying, albeit a far too slow death. It took time for these new 'immigrants' to be merged with the existing society. The war, yes, accelerated a much too slow process, but it was a process already in motion, such as it was.
     
  7. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    Larry,

    No, it was not, nor was there ANY evidence to point to that it was.

    The process was not only "much to slow" and not "already in motion" it was at a social and political standstill.

    I would be happy to be proven wrong.

    Unionblue
     
  8. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Colonel Retired Moderator

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    Dear UnionBlue;

    I do understand what too slow is.

    It is so slow it has to speed up to stop. :smile: :wink:

    The Civil War was that 'speed up to stop.'

    Just some thoughts.

    Respectfully submitted,
    M. E. Wolf
     
  9. Vareb

    Vareb Banned

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    And what book leads you to this conclusion?
     
  10. johan_steele

    johan_steele Colonel Retired Moderator

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    From the Georgia Constitution of 1861: "The General Assembly shall have no power to pass laws for the emancipation of slaves." (This is the entire text of Article 2, Sec. VII, Paragraph 3.)

    From the Alabama Constitution of 1861: "No slave in this State shall be emancipated by any act done to take effect in this State, or any other country." (This is the entire text of Article IV, Section 1 (on slavery).)
     
  11. Battalion

    Battalion Banned

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    States have been known to establish new constitutions on occasion.
     
  12. Scribe

    Scribe Cadet

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    After interviewing John Brown before the start of his trial, Gov. Henry Wise of Virginia said, "He [Brown] is a man of clear head, courage, fortitude, and simple ingenuousness."

    During a discussion about Brown after the rebellion ended, Wise, now a former Confederate general as well as former governor of Virginia said, "John Brown was a great man, sir. John Brown was a great man."
     
  13. trice

    trice Lt. Colonel

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    They certainly have. The two examples you were given appear to establish that the people living in those states in 1861 felt strongly that slavery should continue. Isn't that so?

    Tim
     
  14. Battalion

    Battalion Banned

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    The discussion recently has been about whether the South would still have slavery here in 2008.
     
  15. trice

    trice Lt. Colonel

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    I think you should review the thread. Some people think it would have continued; some people think it would have ended. Do you have some great difficulty with admitting that the two states cited as changing their constitutions in 1861 wanted slavery to continue, effectively, forever?

    Tim
     
  16. OpnDownfall

    OpnDownfall Cadet

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    Slavery, would it have died out in the US without war?

    There is a socio-political aspect to the question. Before and during the War, the south seemed incapable of envisioning Any viable and safe way to emancipate their slaves. Significant is the fact, that transplanting the slaves out of the country, at Federal expense, was rarely, if ever, seriously considered practicable.
    Could the slave-owning ruling minority, free their slaves onto the citizens of southern society, without a voter back-lash, threatening their (the slave-owning oligarchy) power to govern the south?
    Long after the economic justification for slavery withered and died, the fear of what centuries of slavery had wrought in the hearts of those slaves, would still be a deciding factor in all southerners, slave owning or not, concerning emancipation.
     
  17. trice

    trice Lt. Colonel

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    This was a major concern in some Northern states that did free their slaves. In particular, they were very concerned that slaveowners would dump their slaves on the government by freeing them, making "free" the small children, the sick, the elderly, and the crippled so that they would become wards of the state. This is certainly true of NJ, PA, and NY.

    I understand the practical concern involved. It would have been more alrming to people in states where slaves formed a very large portion of the population. But such problems can be faced and resolved.

    Tim
     
  18. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    Vareb,

    I have over 200 books on the Civil War.

    But the number is not important. It was the history contained within them.

    The most compelling history I learned about the Civil War came from source documents from the period.

    It was what I learned from them that led me to this conclusion.

    Unionblue
     
  19. Vareb

    Vareb Banned

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    So what is your point?

    So what is your point?

    Good.

    But you can't recommend a book? Pitiful!!

    Unionblue[/quote]
     
  20. johan_steele

    johan_steele Colonel Retired Moderator

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    [/QUOTE]

    VAreb, you've been given titles, on this thread and others... and then have studiously ignored them.
     
  21. Vareb

    Vareb Banned

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    VAreb, you've been given titles, on this thread and others... and then have studiously ignored them.[/quote]

    You sir, are mistaken. Go back and read some of my post because your statement is incorrect.
     

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