Slavery is Our King; Slavery is our Truth; Slavery is our Divine Right! Modern people can't understand the mind of the slaveholder.

Joined
Sep 17, 2011
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mo
Honestly that's rather a given IMO, if 150 yrs from now people are looking back at us today and saying how or why would they do that.

Our beliefs, attitudes, policies, ect would be fundamental to understanding the how and why we do what we do today. Just as theirs in 1860 is fundamental to us to answer those same questions.
 
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danny

Sergeant
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Location
Hattiesburg
I take you at your word, you really don't understand. Apparently, you find the realities of Southern culture an embarrassment. To me they are just the way things were. Members of my mother's family were slaveholders & no doubt also slaves in Virginia from the 1600's onward. On my Dad's side, the same was true in North Carolina beginning about 100 years later. The names of individual slaves are listed in numerous wills. One very long lived man named Moses appears in 3 of them. The punishment logs of plantations are sobering reading. From my perspective, it is impossible to exaggerate how absurd the comments above are.
I do not ["apparently" as you say] find them embarrassing, but rather realities of a different time. No matter your familial connections, evil doings can be found in every chapter of history. But it still remains just that; history. And each of those chapters had their own views of morality, whether we agree with them or not. We have no right to judge them.

Singling out a particular time in history so as to heap blame and shame on the South, or the Confederacy is not helpful. Now days, we all recognize the evils of slavery. There is no need to continue beating a single association example. Why not spend time and effort on modern day slavery instead? How about the horror stories of being a slave in Africa?

I don't believe it constructive to preach with such an intense and singular focus on the evils of historical slavery. Pouring forth readily available countless tales of horror do not mitigate it. Rather, I view it as unnecessarily inflammatory.

It would seem that some here like to sanctimoniously use it as a cudgel to attack current folks with Confederate heritage; the vast majority of whom had no family connections to slave owning.

Peace
 

Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Excellent presentation and follow-up discussion. It brings some interesting questions to mind about how much the culture of the day can be used to justify--or at least rationalize--the behavior of the day.
You have raised an excellent point. That was exactly what inspired my decades long dive into the subject. I read the names of slaves in a will & for the first time, they became real people to me. Slave-holdiing being what it was, both master & slave were family members. No moral norms that I had prepared me to understand what I was looking at... still don't.
 

Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
I do not ["apparently" as you say] find them embarrassing, but rather realities of a different time. No matter your familial connections, evil doings can be found in every chapter of history. But it still remains just that; history. And each of those chapters had their own views of morality, whether we agree with them or not. We have no right to judge them.

Singling out a particular time in history so as to heap blame and shame on the South, or the Confederacy is not helpful. Now days, we all recognize the evils of slavery. There is no need to continue beating a single association example. Why not spend time and effort on modern day slavery instead? How about the horror stories of being a slave in Africa?

I don't believe it constructive to preach with such an intense and singular focus on the evils of historical slavery. Pouring forth readily available countless tales of horror do not mitigate it. Rather, I view it as unnecessarily inflammatory.

It would seem that some here like to sanctimoniously use it as a cudgel to attack current folks with Confederate heritage; the vast majority of whom had no family connections to slave owning.

Peace
If you find posts that represent my point of view disturbing, perhaps you should avoid reading them.
 

Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
I have my copy of SOUTHERN SLAVERY AND THE LAW 1619-1860 by THOMAS D. MORRIS and I have looked much of it over. I find no themes of the "Happy Slave" cited and many interesting small event aberrations. It is recommended and has 575 pages much details.
Oh no... not another book! Thanks for the reference. The folder I have on this subject holds files from all over the internet. It makes it very hard to cross reference.
 

Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
I fully understand and agree that the American Negro Slave of the 19th​ century should be seen as an American and not an African solely. It is not understandable to me to say an American Negro Slave could take his Master to Court in the Slavery South and win in a Court. I would assume the American Negro Slave while denied the right to be able to write or read anything was told repeatedly that his slave condition was lawfully constitutional in his current governance that he exist within.
caution slave catchers poster.jpeg

The Reverse Underground Rail Road operated from the end of the African slave trade right up until the end. Organized gangs snatched thousands of free blacks & sent them south to be sold as slaves. As the poster above documents, in Northern cities, the local police & legal officials were an integral element of the kidnap rings. This is another of the ugly underbody of slave-holding that some people don't want to know about.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo

The Reverse Underground Rail Road operated from the end of the African slave trade right up until the end. Organized gangs snatched thousands of free blacks & sent them south to be sold as slaves. As the poster above documents, in Northern cities, the local police & legal officials were an integral element of the kidnap rings. This is another of the ugly underbody of slave-holding that some people don't want to know about.
The poster hardly refers to some kidnap ring, but simple law enforcement.

Note how it even italicized "welfare of the fugitives" among you........

As long as someone is a fugitive by US or state law, to enforce the actual law isn't "kidnapping".
 
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Rhea Cole

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Location
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
The poster hardly refers to some kidnap ring, but simple law enforcement.

Note how it even italicized "welfare of the fugitives" among you........

As long as someone is a fugitive by US or state law, to enforce the law isn't 'kidnapping"
Tearing up free papers.jpeg

Perhaps this image of "Blackbirders" kidnapping a free black woman is closer to the point.
I have a folder filled with images & references on this topic.​

You would benefit from a google search on the topic of the Reverse Underground RR. It is not a well known topic, as most of the especially vile elements of slave-holding tend to be. There was an organized kidnapping ring in New York City composed of police & magistrates.

The Kidnapping Club, Wall Street, Slavery & Resistance on the Eve of the Civil War, Johnathan Daniel Wells. "In 1833, Black children began to vanish from the streets of New York City...."

The So-Called 'Kidnapping Club' Featured Cops Selling Free Black New Yorkers Into Slavery. <smithsonianmag.com>

Slave, Salt, Sex & Mr. Crenshaw: The Real story of the Old Slave House & America's Reverse Underground RR. by Joh Musgrave. This is a story that you will have to read to believe. The house is now a National Park site, I think. In any case, a Google search on John Crenshaw, the only man who could legally own slaves in Illinois, will be an eye opener, to say the least.

The Reverse Underground Rail Road is high on the gag a buzzard scale, even for slave-holding. The kidnapping gangs operated in port cities because it was easy to transport the victims to South Carolina. Gangs prowled the Ohio, snatching blacks from both banks of the river & sending them by stages to the Forks in the Road slave market in Natchez. They also kidnapped white girls for the "Fancy Girl" sex slave market in New Orleans. This is not a topic for the faint of heart.
 
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Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Location
mo
I am well aware there was an illegal reverse underground railroad.......however law enforcement arresting actual fugitives isn't it......and the poster you posted I responded to seemed rather clear it was referring to police officers and actual fugitives, as it even specified the fugitives amongst you.

Whether one likes a law, it is the law. And law enforcement enforcing the laws they are sworn to uphold, doesn't actually constitute "kidnapping".
 
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