Slavery as the Primary Cause of the Civil War: the Real Lost Cause Argument.

WJC

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"The army of the North fights for national ambition, fanatical hate and the profits of Southern trade. The army of the South fights to avert from the Southern people a tyranny most hideous and most abhorred. We must nerve ourselves to hear of a day of carnage. The attack has probably been made by our troops. They must carry the enemy's earthworks with the bayonet. The loss may, and probably will, be fearful. But, if we triumph, the victory will be worth the cost. Never was cause more just and holy than ours. The patriot owes his life to his country in the hour of her extremity; and, while we strike for independence, we must be willing, ungrudgingly, to pay the price." -Charleston Mercury, June 27, 1862
Thanks for your response.
Not quite sure how relevant this excerpt from the Charleston Mercury (the newspaper of secessionist Robert B. Rhett) is to the discussion. However, it prompts an interesting question: just what was that "tyranny most hideous and most abhorred"? A revolution where the slaves would become the equal of the slaveholder?
 

uaskme

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...had nothing to do with the cause of the war.

So, what do you want? Let’s forget about all the history pre War. Let’s skip parts of what happen during the War, History post War don’t matter.

So, let’s add all this up, and Southerners should beg for some False Forgiveness. Oh, the Yankee Morals were so higher than the South’s.

Hate to break it to you, vast majority of Southerners, ain’t that Stupid. Ain’t getting it from Me.
 

WJC

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Post War, Northerners abandoned Negroes, just like the South did.
No, they did not- at least not until 1876. And what they "abandoned" was the practice of enforcing the rights guaranteed to Freedmen by the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments from a South that sought to reestablish slavery under a new name. As Frederick Douglass characterized this reborn slavery in an address May 10, 1865, "In what new skin will the old snake come forth?"
<Frederick Douglass, "In What New Skin Will the Old Snake Come Forth?" Frederick Douglass Papers.
https://frederickdouglass.infoset.io/islandora/object/islandora:2551#page/1/mode/1up >
 

Old_Glory

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Bunk.

As is the Lost Cause Myth, this passage quoted by CSA Today is also taken out of context. constantly in use as an excuse, a reason to distract and misdirect.

And whose sins need to be redeemed? Any 19th century Yankees still in existence? Any 19th Rebel slaveholders still around?

It would freeze us in the past.

Unionblue

I only care about the truth.

Placing all the blame on the Southern states using slavery as the weapon while Ohio, New York, and Massachusetts get a free pass is not an accurate version of history.

It simply makes some people feel good about the War at the expense of others.
 

Old_Glory

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Bunk.

As is the Lost Cause Myth, this passage quoted by CSA Today is also taken out of context. constantly in use as an excuse, a reason to distract and misdirect.

And whose sins need to be redeemed? Any 19th century Yankees still in existence? Any 19th Rebel slaveholders still around?

It would freeze us in the past.

Unionblue

I only care about the truth.

Placing all the blame on the Southern states using slavery as the weapon while Ohio, New York, and Massachusetts get a free pass is not an accurate version of history.

It simply makes some people feel good about the War at the expense of others.
 

DanSBHawk

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So, what do you want? Let’s forget about all the history pre War. Let’s skip parts of what happen during the War, History post War don’t matter.

So, let’s add all this up, and Southerners should beg for some False Forgiveness. Oh, the Yankee Morals were so higher than the South’s.

Hate to break it to you, vast majority of Southerners, ain’t that Stupid. Ain’t getting it from Me.
I would rather we just accept history as it is, and stop trying to twist it to flatter someones "heritage."
 

ForeverFree

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And Post War, Northerners abandoned Negroes, just like the South did. Evidence of how important, ending Slavery was to the majority of them. 5 angry White Republicans nullified the Civil Rights gains. Republicans Banned the Chinese. Republican led Federal Government murdered Native Americans, into the next Century. Republicans, with Abolitionist thought made Free Labor, less than Free, and enslaved women North and South, with the Marriage Contract. So yes The Little Northerners have their Sins. And No, anyone who is willing to get past the History for Dummies Books, can get the Truth. Not some Dummied Down version that some Peddle.

1) If post-Confederates would have treated African Americans fairly and equally, then what Northerners did would not have mattered.

If the police are negligent in preventing rapists, thieves, and other perpetrators from committing their crimes, they deserve blame. But ultimately criminals must be held primarily responsible for their actions.

2) It should be remembered that Reconstruction was a period of unheralded advancement for African Americans. Consider these legislative victories:

• Republicans championed and successfully passed the 13th Amendment (abolish slavery), the 14th Amendment (give African Americans citizenship rights), and the 15th Amendment (black male suffrage rights).

• The Civil Rights Act of 1866: This act granted black citizens equal rights to contract, to sue and be sued, to marry, travel, and own property. It made all citizens subject to "like punishment, pains and penalties." Any person guilty of depriving citizens of their stated rights because of race, color, or previous condition of servitude could be fined, imprisoned or both.

• The Reconstruction Act of 1867: This act allowed former slaves to participate fully in the political arena. As a result, African Americans sat in constitutional conventions, helped draft state constitutions, and supported new comprehensive programs for state education in the South.

• The Enforcement Act of 1870: This act stated that all citizens otherwise qualified to vote in any election should not be denied the vote because of race. States could set up prerequisites for voting, but all persons were to have equal access to the vote.

• The Civil Rights Act of 1871: This act set up a system of federal supervision of elections within the states in order to stop illegal voter registration practices.

• The Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871: This act was intended to protect black citizens against intimidation by illegal action, such as by the KKK, in cases where states could not, or would not, provide protection.

• The Civil Rights Act of 1875: This act entitled all persons the "full and equal enjoyment" of public accommodations, such as hotels, transportation or theaters. It granted blacks the right to sue for personal damages, and allowed any qualified person to serve as a juror. This was the last piece of civil rights legislation passed by the United States Congress until 1957.

The result of this included the following:

maxresdefault-jpg.jpg

Several African American members of the US Congress.

south%20carolina2.jpg

A post war photo of the South Carolina legislature

va_ga_87-88_lg-jpg.jpg

1887-1888 Members of the VA General Assembly. (Photo credit: Bells Mill Historical Research and Restoration Society, Inc., Chesapeake, VA.)

reconstructiongov_la-jpg.jpg

Oscar Dunn, Lt Gov of Louisiana, and African American members of the state legislature.

As I recall, there were over 1,100 African Americans who were elected to office during Reconstruction. By the early 1900s, there were none in former Confederate states.

Reconstruction and the post-Reconstruction saw huge gains in literacy among the black population. African Americans slowly began to accumulate land and wealth. African American churches in the South began to increase in number and flourish, and church leaders were key members of the black leadership.

These gains were of built on key Reconstruction amendments and other legal, constitutional, and policy advances that were made possible by Northerners and Republicans in particular, along with African Americans.

saluting-the-flag-at-the-whittier-primary-school.jpg

African Americans students in Virginia, circa 1899, saluting the flag - a legacy of Radical Reconstruction.

3) A point I make to people is that Reconstruction was contested. This is an important concept.

Many people imagine that Reconstruction was something that Republicans could simply impose on white Southerners. And that if Reconstruction failed, it's because Republicans failed.

In fact, white Southerners had their own view of what the post-war South would look like. And they had resources which they could use to resist, and successfully resist, the efforts of white Northerners, African Americans, and white Southern Republicans to re-make the South.

The argument has been made that to win the Civil War, Confederates did not need to defeat the Union militarily; they had to make the cost of war greater than the Union was willing to pay. This did not happen in the case of the war, but it did happen in the case of Reconstruction. White Southern resistance won the peace, and would continue to do so until 100 years after the Civil War ended.

4) Your post did not address the comment in mine, but that's OK.

- Alan
 

WJC

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Placing all the blame on the Southern states
No one claims that slavery was limited to the South and was not a national disgrace. What is asserted is that while some states saw fit to end the practice through at least a lengthy, gradual process, other states chose to cling to the practice and even destroy the Union and establish a new nation so that they could practice slavery in perpetuity and extend its reach.
We should, indeed, recognize the national 'sin'; but we ought not forget that some failed to see it as a 'sin', but rather saw it as "a positive good".
 

WJC

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Placing all the blame on the Southern states
No one claims that slavery was limited to the South and was not a national disgrace. What is asserted is that while some states saw fit to end the practice through at least a lengthy, gradual process, other states chose to cling to the practice and even destroy the Union and establish a new nation so that they could practice slavery in perpetuity and extend its reach.
We should, indeed, recognize the national 'sin'; but we ought not forget that some failed to see it as a 'sin', but rather saw it as "a positive good".
 

WJC

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Read their speeches. If you do, you cannot believe in "it was all slavery" anymore.
Thanks for your response.
I have never insisted that "it was all slavery". I have insisted that among the factors, the single root cause for secession was slavery. Simply put, no slavery, no secession, no Civil War. I believe that my assertion is supported by documents, speeches and letters written at the time by secessionists and other Southern leaders.
I don't think it of any value to repeat all of the discussions or present all of the evidence that has been presented in other threads that supports this conclusion in this Forum. However, I will furnish one example. Consider
A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.
<http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp >

A quick listing of all of the "immediate causes" presented by Mississippians to justify secession is:
1. Slavery;
2.Concern over Abolition of slavery;
3. US showing hostility toward the institution of slavery.
4. US dismembering Texas and lands acquired through the settlement of the Mexican War;
5. US denying the property rights associated with slavery;
6. US refusing to admit new 'slave states';
7. US seeking to confine slavery to current slave-holding states;
8. US failing to recognize "original equality of the South";
9. US allowing "almost every free State" to ignore the Fugitive Slave Law;
10. US advocating negro equality and promoting "insurrection and incendiarism";
11. US allowing the press, churches, and schools to oppose slavery;
12. US inflaming citizens with anti-slavery prejudice;
13. US making combinations and forming associations which scheme to emancipate slaves;
14. US seeking to destroy the present benevolence of slavery;
15. US invading a fellow State;
16. US honoring John Brown with martyrdom;
17. US breaking every compact into which entered for "our security";
18. US evidencing a scheme "to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system";
19. US being hopelessly aggressive in schemes against Mississippi;
20. US allowing Republicans to illegally win the election of 1860;
21. US threatening the investors' holdings of $4 Billion worth of slaves;
22.US destroying every hope of reconciliation.
Twenty-two reasons. Your reading of the document may come up with more or fewer.
By my count, 14/22 relate to slavery (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 18, 21); 1/22 relates to disposition of land acquired from Mexico (4); 1/22 is vague and indeterminant (8); 1/22 relates to invasion (15); 1/22 relates to John Brown (16); 1/22 relates to breaking agreements (17); 1/22 for not being nice (19); 1/22 for an illegal election (20); 1/22 for not keeping hope alive (22).
Clearly, slavery is far and away the dominating issue.
 

Tin cup

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You
"The army of the North fights for national ambition, fanatical hate and the profits of Southern trade. The army of the South fights to avert from the Southern people a tyranny most hideous and most abhorred. We must nerve ourselves to hear of a day of carnage. The attack has probably been made by our troops. They must carry the enemy's earthworks with the bayonet. The loss may, and probably will, be fearful. But, if we triumph, the victory will be worth the cost. Never was cause more just and holy than ours. The patriot owes his life to his country in the hour of her extremity; and, while we strike for independence, we must be willing, ungrudgingly, to pay the price." -Charleston Mercury, June 27, 1862
You believe what a Southern, South Carolinian newspaper said?

Kevin Dally
 

uaskme

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No one claims that slavery was limited to the South and was not a national disgrace. What is asserted is that while some states saw fit to end the practice through at least a lengthy, gradual process, other states chose to cling to the practice and even destroy the Union and establish a new nation so that they could practice slavery in perpetuity and extend its reach.
We should, indeed, recognize the national 'sin'; but we ought not forget that some failed to see it as a 'sin', but rather saw it as "a positive good".

The North, found a population of White, Starving, Cheaper Replacements. Is that fact, not important? The North participated in every aspect of Southern Slavery. NYC became the Center of the Illegal Mid-Atlantic Slave Trade. Approximately 1.6 Million Negroes were trafficked, during this period. Northern Merchants participated in the Chinese Opium Trade. Part of that Trade was Trafficking poor, starving Chinese to Cuba and Peru. They were chained down in ships. At least as brutal as the Mid Atlantic Slave Trade or Worse. Is none of this, Important? Is the Exclusion of Events, Truth. I hear the term Truth a lot, just don’t see the Evidence of it. The North got rid of their Negroes and Slave owning Business. Which yes, they wanted no more Negroes. However the North never, Stop their involvement in Slavery. Does it make someone a Lost Causer, if they want to know these things? Should we not expect to learn, the whole story, instead of someone’s white washed version? Slavery is United States History, not just Southern History.
 

uaskme

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No one claims that slavery was limited to the South and was not a national disgrace. What is asserted is that while some states saw fit to end the practice through at least a lengthy, gradual process, other states chose to cling to the practice and even destroy the Union and establish a new nation so that they could practice slavery in perpetuity and extend its reach.
We should, indeed, recognize the national 'sin'; but we ought not forget that some failed to see it as a 'sin', but rather saw it as "a positive good".

The North, found a population of White, Starving, Cheaper Replacements. Is that fact, not important? The North participated in every aspect of Southern Slavery. NYC became the Center of the Illegal Mid-Atlantic Slave Trade. Approximately 1.6 Million Negroes were trafficked, during this period. Northern Merchants participated in the Chinese Opium Trade. Part of that Trade was Trafficking poor, starving Chinese to Cuba and Peru. They were chained down in ships. At least as brutal as the Mid Atlantic Slave Trade or Worse. Is none of this, Important? Is the Exclusion of Events, Truth. I hear the term Truth a lot, just don’t see the Evidence of it. The North got rid of their Negroes and Slave owning Business. Which yes, they wanted no more Negroes. However the North never, Stop their involvement in Slavery. Does it make someone a Lost Causer, if they want to know these things? Should we not expect to learn, the whole story, instead of someone’s white washed version? Slavery is United States History, not just Southern History.
 

uaskme

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I'll google it for you. Here is a link that explains the role of the Irish. Post Emancipation in the North.

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/the-hands-that-built-america-93287044-237694541

Southern Planters used them, because they were Cheaper than Negros. Unfortunately, Slaves had a price tag on them. However, that was a determination of Value. What was the Value, of a Irishman, during this Period? They fed them Whiskey and what little else, they could get by with. Oh, but I forgot, it was Revolutionary Principles, why the North gave up Slavery? A Narrative, isn’t History.

Another problem with the Single Causer and the Single Cause Fallacy. Some study Slavery, and move on to study other aspects of the period. Not so much, the Single Causer . Thanks for your Participation.
 

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