Sixty Percent of 1860 U.S. Export Income From Cotton

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cedarstripper

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My point is that during the cumulative period from 1850 to 1873 specie and bullion exports were used entirely as a means to settle America's international trade deficit. In fact, in aggregate amount they were not even adequate for that. It is, therefore, specious to suggest that they were merely another conventional product export.
You are concerned with specie and bullion's use to pay trade deficit. I am not. I am trying to stress that it was a product of the US. If there had been disunion, it would have continued yearly to be a product of the US, adding to the wealth created there. It was not in circulation previously. It was not borrowed. It was mined, and no differently than cotton or iron, it was a product that created wealth. Tip your glass to those 49ers.
 
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Eric Calistri

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My point is that during the cumulative period from 1850 to 1873 specie and bullion exports were used entirely as a means to settle America's international trade deficit. In fact, in aggregate amount they were not even adequate for that. It is, therefore, specious to suggest that they were merely another conventional product export.

This is incorrect. The boom in Gold mining circa 1850 contributed to raising GNP in the united states, it boosted exports (as per the US treasury dept) and it created a lasting permanent industry for the USA. You do see that settling trade balances with domestically produced gold is one thing, and settling it with gold imported from somewhere else is a different thing, right? It should be obvious right? I understand that ignoring all aspects of the US economy except for cotton, but the fact is that cotton was roughly 10% of GNP and not 100%.

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jgoodguy

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Coincidence is not causation.

We have had an interesting economic discussion.
Now does anyone have evidence of cause-that economic concerns caused the Civil War or encouraged Lincoln go to war after Davis attacked the United States rather than political concerns.
 
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contestedground

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As a matter of fact, partly over trade differences, a significant number of Yankees were inclined to conquer Canada including President Grant.*

*James Thompson, Making North America, 31-32
What's Mr. Thompson's evidence for that claim, Mr. Leigh? I've heard that Grant was interested in ousting the French from Mexico, but that's a different border.
 

jgoodguy

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What's Mr. Thompson's evidence for that claim, Mr. Leigh? I've heard that Grant was interested in ousting the French from Mexico, but that's a different border.
As host.
This line of query is off topic.
Please stay on topic. The OP seems to be that the motive for Lincoln and Company fighting for Union was the wealth of Cotton.
 

OpnCoronet

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about $78 million.

Take away the South's cotton (not to mention tobacco) exports alone and America's trade deficit would almost certainly have exceeded $255 million. The country did not have anywhere near enough specie and bullion to pay $255 million. It was for such economic reasons that the Yankees did not want the South to secede and they were willing to go to war to prevent it.



So what, exactly, are you saying? That if the economic situations had been reversed, the North would not have still resisted the South's unilateral secession, for the political reasons stated by Lincoln?
 
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mobile_96

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My point is that during the cumulative period from 1850 to 1873 specie and bullion exports were used entirely as a means to settle America's international trade deficit. In fact, in aggregate amount they were not even adequate for that. It is, therefore, specious to suggest that they were merely another conventional product export.
Not really. No country actually sends specie to pay off a trade deficit. It simply means a loss of 'treasure' of a country. It may, or may not mean loss of jobs, it could actually in some cases actually creat jobs. When it becomes a sizable % of GNP, it might cause some issues. As it is, even ecomomists today argue on the plus or minus benefits of a deficit. That 20 million deficit in the 1860 fiscal year was .45% of the GNP.
Next. There are 2 forms of gold.
1. specie-gold(which can also refer to silver)-used to back currency, or used as currency.
2. Bullion- metal usually intended to be used as a product, such as in making watches, jewlry, gold leaf, etc. Now, other governments may buy gold with the intent to back their own currency, making it, in effect money, but it still leaves this country as bullion, not money. Bullion is the gold that is included in the list of exports. No where in the list of exports did I see Money of any kind listed. Exports are Products that we send out of the country, not the payments for products.
Although payments for rights for products, or use of a copyright will appear in the trade deficit.
So again, I still see no efforts of northern business men to create a war to 'recover' that 20 million. Think it would have been much easier to create product to sell outside the country to regain their money.
Have a nice day!
 

civilken

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On that point, I generally agree. My argument is that the government generally wasn't making out on those kinds of deals. One would have to show that the government's motivation was to help Northern economic interests in order to argue that it was the primary reason for the fight for Union.

Ryan
iit's always nice when someone brings in a little logic thank you.. Role
 

Drew

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Coincidence is not causation.

We have had an interesting economic discussion.
Now does anyone have evidence of cause-that economic concerns caused the Civil War or encouraged Lincoln go to war after Davis attacked the United States rather than political concerns.
"Evidence" that will satisfy this Forum will likely never be found. Politicians do not write and file memoranda for historians to find, that explain everything in a neat and tidy way.

We are left with their public rhetoric, unfortunately. Ordinances of Secession, Presidential Proclamations, etc. This is pretty lame "evidence," but it's what we've got. Cling to this at your peril, then as now.
 
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brass napoleon

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We are left with their public rhetoric, unfortunately. Ordinances of Secession, Presidential Proclamations, etc. This is pretty lame "evidence," but it's what we've got. Cling to this at your peril, then as now.
Yes. Much better to cling to whatever theories make you feel all warm and fuzzy. :nah disagree:
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O' Be Joyful

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Yes. Much better to cling to whatever innuendo and conspiracy theories make you feel all warm and fuzzy. :nah disagree:
But, "follow the money" and "corrupt northern banking interests" theories are soo obvious, why spoil the the fun with something silly like evidence?:smug: All ya need to do brass is connect the dots and BELIEVE. The truth is out there... er well maybe way out there, somewhere.
 
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