Sickles at Gettysburg

Much has been written about Sickles's advance to high ground from Cemetery Ridge on the 2nd day. Leaving an ordered position which seemed to put his Corps in a poor position were his artillery was ineffective and his infantry was vulnerable. Meade may have been toying with the idea of leaving the field altogether. Some say that Sickles's sacrifice of his Corps saved the Army and Gettysburg. What would you have done?

http://www.gettysburgdaily.com/?p=3864
 
I see you linked Jim Hessler's Gburg daily series in your post. If you have the chance, his book is an excellent read and really puts Sickles role at Gettysburg into perspective. Based on the objective way Hessler examines Sickles actions as well as the information available to him and past experience he presents that Sickles actions on the 2nd day really were not as foolish or brazen as often presented.

A strong argument can be made that Sickles advance inadvertantly confused and delayed Longstreets attack and had he been in his original assigned position a breakthrough (whether it could be sustained is another story) of the cemetery ridge line might have occured. Although Sickles and his supporters may lose some credibility based on their politicking after the battle, and tactically Sickles may have erred in the manner in which he broke up and deployed his brigades, overall Sickles did perform well during the battle and really was not the incompetent he is often portrayed to be.
 
He advanced from the position his commander posted him without informing him at all.. His units though surprising Longstreet by their location were chewed up piece meal.. Other units had to be stripped from around the field just to try to save his Corps.. In my own opinion he acted recklessly and put the whole Union position in jeopardy.. If he had stayed where he was he would be entrenched on high ground with battery support awaiting Longstreet and in examining Lee plan for the attack, Sickles had a very good chance of being able to strike Longstreet on the flank and rear.. Lastly, there wouldn't have been a race to get units to the Round tops as they would have already been there...
 
This one might never die. But, If we didn't have Sickles to argue about, discussions on Gettysburg would not be quite so much fun.

To me, the question is, how well Longstreet's assault might have fared if Sickles were where he was placed? (If if's and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a marvelous Christmas.)

Clearly, Sickles confounded the plan.
 
I believe it was George Sykes that held some of that ground on the third day.... I wonder what he thought of it? Jim Hessler does make a good arguement for Sickles.

I see you linked Jim Hessler's Gburg daily series in your post. If you have the chance, his book is an excellent read and really puts Sickles role at Gettysburg into perspective. Based on the objective way Hessler examines Sickles actions as well as the information available to him and past experience he presents that Sickles actions on the 2nd day really were not as foolish or brazen as often presented.

A strong argument can be made that Sickles advance inadvertantly confused and delayed Longstreets attack and had he been in his original assigned position a breakthrough (whether it could be sustained is another story) of the cemetery ridge line might have occured. Although Sickles and his supporters may lose some credibility based on their politicking after the battle, and tactically Sickles may have erred in the manner in which he broke up and deployed his brigades, overall Sickles did perform well during the battle and really was not the incompetent he is often portrayed to be.
 
Very good videos, but still can't understand Sickle... If he didn't know where he should move his Corp to replace the men that were leaving LRT, why didn't he just send someone to Meade's headquarters which was only a 1/2 mile away.. Also, even if that is true there is no way he could have thought that the men he was replacing were actually half the distance closer to the enemy then he was..He would have seen those troops move off in front of him if they were actually there...Last couple of thoughts, his new position left his flank hanging in the air, how was he going to support it and avoid being turned..The video made the point that his position was not suited for artillary, but the new one he chose was even worse, with its rocky ground and bad cover..Im still under the impression that Sickles thought he knew better then Meade and was going to do was he pleased and not what Meade wanted...But, with that said Im tempted to get the book to get further info...
 
Sickles, Sickles, he's our man...if he can't do it.....he'll tell you he did :smile: Sorry... This is a really interesting discussion, and I second that sentiment about learning a lot.
 
It's pretty easy if you watch all of Jim Hessler's videos. The problem is that the terrain is not suitable as far as Sickles is concerned, Hessler points out the low ground that Meade places Sickles on. Sickles new position is better because it is elevated, although it creates gaps in the lines as some have pointed out this happened on the following day also.

Very good videos, but still can't understand Sickle... If he didn't know where he should move his Corp to replace the men that were leaving LRT, why didn't he just send someone to Meade's headquarters which was only a 1/2 mile away.. Also, even if that is true there is no way he could have thought that the men he was replacing were actually half the distance closer to the enemy then he was..He would have seen those troops move off in front of him if they were actually there...Last couple of thoughts, his new position left his flank hanging in the air, how was he going to support it and avoid being turned..The video made the point that his position was not suited for artillary, but the new one he chose was even worse, with its rocky ground and bad cover..Im still under the impression that Sickles thought he knew better then Meade and was going to do was he pleased and not what Meade wanted...But, with that said Im tempted to get the book to get further info...
 
Sickles, Sickles, he's our man...if he can't do it.....he'll tell you he did :smile: Sorry... This is a really interesting discussion, and I second that sentiment about learning a lot.

ha ha ha!

When I was at Gettysburg last year, you can see how Sickles might be worried about the terrain in front of the Round Tops, especially since the NPS has cleared the post battle woods from the area.
 
ha ha ha!

When I was at Gettysburg last year, you can see how Sickles might be worried about the terrain in front of the Round Tops, especially since the NPS has cleared the post battle woods from the area.

I agree. I never realized just how much of a "dip" and how messed up that is below the RT's--I'm not really sure I wouldn't have wanted to move, too. However, I might have let somebody know :smile:
 
I agree. I never realized just how much of a "dip" and how messed up that is below the RT's--I'm not really sure I wouldn't have wanted to move, too. However, I might have let somebody know :smile:
Wouldn't you like to have been a fly on the wall when Hancock realized Sickles was moving forward?
 
Wouldn't you like to have been a fly on the wall when Hancock realized Sickles was moving forward?

Maybe if I was WAAAAAY up in the rafters. I bet that man could throw flames when he got mad (and he certainly got lots of practice, dealing with some of the idiots he had to put up with)
 
I'm visualizing him staring at III Corps while standing in the center of a 10' diameter scorched swath of grass. Like crop circles, but they're Hancock circles.
 
I'm visualizing him staring at III Corps while standing in the center of a 10' diameter scorched swath of grass. Like crop circles, but they're Hancock circles.

I can imagine Sickles standing in a brown circle...... I'll call it a "Sickle circle."

Nice ring to it.

dvrmte
 
ha ha ha!

When I was at Gettysburg last year, you can see how Sickles might be worried about the terrain in front of the Round Tops, especially since the NPS has cleared the post battle woods from the area.

But why move so much in advance of the other Corps, both his flanks were in the air... And again why didnt he send a messenger to Meade if he really didnt know where he was supposed to be.. If he was afraid of the higher ground in front of him then why not go to the even higher hills that were behind him. That higher ground that he was afraid of was still in front of him even in his newer position..
 
Maybe if I was WAAAAAY up in the rafters. I bet that man could throw flames when he got mad (and he certainly got lots of practice, dealing with some of the idiots he had to put up with)

I've heard Hancock was one of the biggest swearers in the Union army.
 
But why move so much in advance of the other Corps, both his flanks were in the air... And again why didnt he send a messenger to Meade if he really didnt know where he was supposed to be.. If he was afraid of the higher ground in front of him then why not go to the even higher hills that were behind him. That higher ground that he was afraid of was still in front of him even in his newer position..

And therein lies the joy of making up Sickles jokes. I can't see how anyone can actually defend his actions--in the end, he had several good actions he could have taken, and chose none of them....
 
blobmstr.gifHancock watching III Corps......
 
If I remember my reading correctly when Hancock watched Sickles move out he said to someone not to worry he will soon be coming back. Hancock knew it was not a very smart thing to do.
We do many walks on this subject and the thread that is always the same especially with the present and former military people is that no matter what you think of the move there is no getting around the fact that he disobeyed a direct order from a superior officer. He could of been arrested and court martialed for that alone.
 
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