Too much hate in the world now that doesn't pertain to 150 years ago.@John Fenton
Mr. Fenton, there is a simple solution to all of this. My Grand Pappy always told me, "Little Billy, live and let live". Mr. Fenton if you don't want to honor a Confederate, in any capacity, then don't. No one, nor no law is forcing you or anyone to honor them. Live and let live, allow those who do wish to honor the Confederates, and their ancestors, in private and/or public to do so. It is really that simple.
Respectfully,
William
One Nation,
Two countries
View attachment 308935
I don't think it was necessarily a loaded question. It was meant to get you away from blanket indictments against all former Confederate leaders. I am sure there were former rebels who were very bad actors. But I'll give you two examples of my own: Gen. Joseph Shelby and Gen. Francis Marion Cockrell. The former became a US Marshall and a highly respected citizen of Kansas City. The latter became a US Senator with a particularly distinguished career. I don't think these two men are unique examples, although I think the vast majority of former rebels lived very quiet lives away from the public spotlight.It is a loaded question though and the answer depends on the manner in which they performed these functions.
I don't think it was necessarily a loaded question. It was meant to get you away from blanket indictments against all former Confederate leaders. I am sure there were former rebels who were very bad actors. But I'll give you two examples of my own: Gen. Joseph Shelby and Gen. Francis Marion Cockrell. The former became a US Marshall and a highly respected citizen of Kansas City. The latter became a US Senator with a particularly distinguished career. I don't think these two men are unique examples, although I think the vast majority of former rebels lived very quiet lives away from the public spotlight.
I am not familiar with cockrell but since you used him in conjunction with Shelby then you have made my point.I don't think it was necessarily a loaded question. It was meant to get you away from blanket indictments against all former Confederate leaders. I am sure there were former rebels who were very bad actors. But I'll give you two examples of my own: Gen. Joseph Shelby and Gen. Francis Marion Cockrell. The former became a US Marshall and a highly respected citizen of Kansas City. The latter became a US Senator with a particularly distinguished career. I don't think these two men are unique examples, although I think the vast majority of former rebels lived very quiet lives away from the public spotlight.
I am not familiar with cockrell but since you used him in conjunction with Shelby then you have made my point.
Shelby was a bad actor. There should be plenty of material on him here. Also i stand by my blanket indictment regardless of their post war activities, not to condemn them but not to honor them either.
It appears that some here want to honor the confederate rebels and traitors and i am in the minority. Have it your way and honor the unhonorables (not the undefeated, they were all defeated). It fits the irony and contradictions of the war. Imo no former confederate should have been allowed to hold public office. It was setting the fox to guard the henhouse and the cause of post war union dishonor.
Shelby was, by his own admission, a bad actor in the border ruffian days. He was highly respected after the war. In what ways do you believe he acted badly after the war? William Elsey Connelley has a lot of revealing information about Shelby in his post war book "Quantrill and the Border Wars." Google search Cockrell. Don't take my word for him. You'll see that he was a five term US Senator, highly regarded by President Roosevelt, and that he served admirably in government until his death.Shelby was a bad actor.
Also i stand by my blanket indictment regardless of their post war activities, not to condemn them but not to honor them either.
It appears that some here want to honor the confederate rebels and traitors and i am in the minority. Have it your way and honor the unhonorables (not the undefeated, they were all defeated). It fits the irony and contradictions of the war. Imo no former confederate should have been allowed to hold public office. It was setting the fox to guard the henhouse and the cause of post war union dishonor.
I was replying to the OP that asks a question and you all have jumped me so practice what you preach. However your beating up on me does not change my opinion. What you do in private is your business but honoring confederates in public should equate to burning our flag. You have the right but i don’t have to like it.Live and let live, allow those who do wish to honor the Confederates, and their ancestors, in private and/or public to do so. It is really that simple.
once again i did not use that term and do not hate but there is too much hate in the world now that does pertain to 150 years ago. I used emmet till in an example before now i will reference the poor woman who was run over in Charlottesville. By your ID here you are saying you will never let it go.Too much hate in the world now that doesn't pertain to 150 years ago.
See ! But you call me full of hate.Oh, how I wish it was so. It would have kept Southern resentment at a lasting fever pitch, none of that disgusting, degrading reconciliation claptrap that followed for decades afterward.
See ! But you call me full of hate.
By who ? Other ex-confederates ? He helped Frank James get acquitted for one thing. Do you have any suspicions that it was rigged ? That is the kind of thing that was going on all over the south as ex-confederates wormed their way back into power.He was highly respected after the war.
I have absence of malice and that does not result in honoring. I believe in charity for all not just rich white men who cry poor mouth because they lost their slave empire. The leaders should have been donating any charity they might receive to the people whose lives were really ruined. Most of them prospered, many in the cotton business, after the war while the sharecroppers and tenet farmers struggled.I don't believe you bought into the "with malice towards none, with charity for all" part of Lincoln's second inaugural speech.
I didn’t say you said anything. I just re-posted your wish that the south would stay incited.I never said that, but if it's OK with you it's fine with me. You are doing good -- keep it coming.
Oh, I got the impression from "you call me full of hate" that you thought I called you full of hate. Do you think reconciliation caused it to still be going after 150 years?I didn’t say you said anything. I just re-posted your wish that the south would stay incited.
And imo it would have been over in a generation instead of still going after 150 yrs.
Thank you, @unionblue!My hope is all will be remembered and their history and acts will be learned from.
Thank you, @unionblue!