Should Leaders of The Confederacy Be Honored?

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@John Fenton

Mr. Fenton, there is a simple solution to all of this. My Grand Pappy always told me, "Little Billy, live and let live". Mr. Fenton if you don't want to honor a Confederate, in any capacity, then don't. No one, nor no law is forcing you or anyone to honor them. Live and let live, allow those who do wish to honor the Confederates, and their ancestors, in private and/or public to do so. It is really that simple.


Respectfully,
William

One Nation,
Two countries
Confed-American Flag - Thumbnail.jpg
 
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@John Fenton

Mr. Fenton, there is a simple solution to all of this. My Grand Pappy always told me, "Little Billy, live and let live". Mr. Fenton if you don't want to honor a Confederate, in any capacity, then don't. No one, nor no law is forcing you or anyone to honor them. Live and let live, allow those who do wish to honor the Confederates, and their ancestors, in private and/or public to do so. It is really that simple.


Respectfully,
William

One Nation,
Two countries
View attachment 308935
Too much hate in the world now that doesn't pertain to 150 years ago.
 
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Theres always those who rather then exercise freedom of choice for themselves, think they need to decide for everyone else as well:nah disagree:

It is rather simple if you dont want to do something, then dont........others will make the same decision based on their views. Personally I think if someone wants to honor someone, CW or not they should, if they dont, then dont.......however it would seem a personal decision to me, as not everyone shares the same views, politics, religion, ect
 
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It is a loaded question though and the answer depends on the manner in which they performed these functions.
I don't think it was necessarily a loaded question. It was meant to get you away from blanket indictments against all former Confederate leaders. I am sure there were former rebels who were very bad actors. But I'll give you two examples of my own: Gen. Joseph Shelby and Gen. Francis Marion Cockrell. The former became a US Marshall and a highly respected citizen of Kansas City. The latter became a US Senator with a particularly distinguished career. I don't think these two men are unique examples, although I think the vast majority of former rebels lived very quiet lives away from the public spotlight.
 
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I don't think it was necessarily a loaded question. It was meant to get you away from blanket indictments against all former Confederate leaders. I am sure there were former rebels who were very bad actors. But I'll give you two examples of my own: Gen. Joseph Shelby and Gen. Francis Marion Cockrell. The former became a US Marshall and a highly respected citizen of Kansas City. The latter became a US Senator with a particularly distinguished career. I don't think these two men are unique examples, although I think the vast majority of former rebels lived very quiet lives away from the public spotlight.

Many were both US veterans of the Mexican war and the CSA, such as Lee, other such as Wheeler were veterans of the CSA and the US in Spanish American war. Which prompted President McKinley to say "Every soldier’s grave made during our unfortunate Civil War is a tribute to American valor. And while, when those graves were made, we differed widely about the future of this government, those differences were long ago settled by the arbitrament of arms; and the time has now come, in the evolution of sentiment and feeling under the providence of God, when in the spirit of fraternity we should share with you in the care of the graves of the Confederate soldiers."

I'm always amazed by the apparent vitriol of some today, when it wasnt that prevalent by those who lived through it......…at times I suspect its some bizarre form of roleplaying and not genuine........but just my guess.
 
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I don't think it was necessarily a loaded question. It was meant to get you away from blanket indictments against all former Confederate leaders. I am sure there were former rebels who were very bad actors. But I'll give you two examples of my own: Gen. Joseph Shelby and Gen. Francis Marion Cockrell. The former became a US Marshall and a highly respected citizen of Kansas City. The latter became a US Senator with a particularly distinguished career. I don't think these two men are unique examples, although I think the vast majority of former rebels lived very quiet lives away from the public spotlight.
I am not familiar with cockrell but since you used him in conjunction with Shelby then you have made my point.
Shelby was a bad actor. There should be plenty of material on him here. Also i stand by my blanket indictment regardless of their post war activities, not to condemn them but not to honor them either.
It appears that some here want to honor the confederate rebels and traitors and i am in the minority. Have it your way and honor the unhonorables (not the undefeated, they were all defeated). It fits the irony and contradictions of the war. Imo no former confederate should have been allowed to hold public office. It was setting the fox to guard the henhouse and the cause of post war union dishonor.
 
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I am not familiar with cockrell but since you used him in conjunction with Shelby then you have made my point.
Shelby was a bad actor. There should be plenty of material on him here. Also i stand by my blanket indictment regardless of their post war activities, not to condemn them but not to honor them either.
It appears that some here want to honor the confederate rebels and traitors and i am in the minority. Have it your way and honor the unhonorables (not the undefeated, they were all defeated). It fits the irony and contradictions of the war. Imo no former confederate should have been allowed to hold public office. It was setting the fox to guard the henhouse and the cause of post war union dishonor.

Oh, how I wish it was so. It would have kept Southern resentment at a lasting fever pitch, none of that disgusting, degrading reconciliation claptrap that followed for decades afterward. :O o:
 
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Shelby was a bad actor.
Shelby was, by his own admission, a bad actor in the border ruffian days. He was highly respected after the war. In what ways do you believe he acted badly after the war? William Elsey Connelley has a lot of revealing information about Shelby in his post war book "Quantrill and the Border Wars." Google search Cockrell. Don't take my word for him. You'll see that he was a five term US Senator, highly regarded by President Roosevelt, and that he served admirably in government until his death.

I don't believe you bought into the "with malice towards none, with charity for all" part of Lincoln's second inaugural speech.
 
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Also i stand by my blanket indictment regardless of their post war activities, not to condemn them but not to honor them either.
It appears that some here want to honor the confederate rebels and traitors and i am in the minority. Have it your way and honor the unhonorables (not the undefeated, they were all defeated). It fits the irony and contradictions of the war. Imo no former confederate should have been allowed to hold public office. It was setting the fox to guard the henhouse and the cause of post war union dishonor.

The problem is blanket statements the other is opinions.....
 
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Live and let live, allow those who do wish to honor the Confederates, and their ancestors, in private and/or public to do so. It is really that simple.
I was replying to the OP that asks a question and you all have jumped me so practice what you preach. However your beating up on me does not change my opinion. What you do in private is your business but honoring confederates in public should equate to burning our flag. You have the right but i don’t have to like it.

Too much hate in the world now that doesn't pertain to 150 years ago.
once again i did not use that term and do not hate but there is too much hate in the world now that does pertain to 150 years ago. I used emmet till in an example before now i will reference the poor woman who was run over in Charlottesville. By your ID here you are saying you will never let it go.
 
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He was highly respected after the war.
By who ? Other ex-confederates ? He helped Frank James get acquitted for one thing. Do you have any suspicions that it was rigged ? That is the kind of thing that was going on all over the south as ex-confederates wormed their way back into power.
I don't believe you bought into the "with malice towards none, with charity for all" part of Lincoln's second inaugural speech.
I have absence of malice and that does not result in honoring. I believe in charity for all not just rich white men who cry poor mouth because they lost their slave empire. The leaders should have been donating any charity they might receive to the people whose lives were really ruined. Most of them prospered, many in the cotton business, after the war while the sharecroppers and tenet farmers struggled.
 
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All of this makes me sick. I really wish you all had your own country, just not mine. If only Shelby had been successful in Mexico or more had immigrated to Brazil or confederates had been kept out of gov’t we might not be having this discussion.
 
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I didn’t say you said anything. I just re-posted your wish that the south would stay incited.
And imo it would have been over in a generation instead of still going after 150 yrs.
Oh, I got the impression from "you call me full of hate" that you thought I called you full of hate. Do you think reconciliation caused it to still be going after 150 years?
 
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What I see on this thread is not an attempt to honor anyone.

The thread is a vehicle to score debating points off one another.

We will, as individuals, honor whom we want, where we want, at anyplace we think we can.

My hope is all will be remembered and their history and acts will be learned from.
 
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