Should Black Americans Consider Enslavers Their "Ancestors?"

Never saw the movie... my wife and I listened to an audiobook version on a couple of trips up to Detroit and back.

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Halle Berry plays Janie. It's a great watch. It's on YouTube you can watch here. :smile:
 
I's like to add another issue that was, in my case, pretty significant. Genetics/DNA was a very large part in the importance of researching my family because of some medical issue that were becoming a concern within the family. Finding out that my father was African American, I was able to share this information with my doctor. Pretty important stuff when you have missing family information in your medical profile. Now I know we are speaking here, of situation going several generations back, but important none the less. Another reason, why I feel the way I do about family secrets and skeletons in the closet, you never know how it might affect someone's well being and physical health down the line. I personally needed accurate information not only for myself, but for my daughter as well! I think we are all pretty much in harmony, sharing our personal stories and supporting Miss Dedej! It a great thing to see!
 
This is the main thing my spirit and mind is battling.

I am still having trouble relating - only because this wasn't a case that happened once or twice - but consistently for a number of my Black ancestors. A good number of my 3rd and 4th maternal Grandparents are biracial aka Mulatto.

They were young children/teens purchased then violated and bore children then raised by Black men who I thought were my Grandfathers --- but whom respectfully and lovingly wore that title - but sadly were not - in many cases maybe not even aware they were not the child's father.

From a biological stand point - yes..... they are my ancestor.

But, from my family tree/genealogy stand point - do I want my nieces, nephews, cousins -- and one day possibly my own children --- to acknowledge that part of their lineage on our family tree?

Again, I don't have any issues with these ancestors - it was a different time - though I do not agree with their actions - I am mindful of that era and I try my best not to judge them.

If it was me, I'd use an asterisk to refer to the rapist. You want the family tree to represent the truth. The tree itself is the family, and in my opinion, DNA isn't necessarily family. But if the purpose is to trace the DNA lineage, then they need to be there somewhere, hence the asterisk.
 
Wow. So relatable!

I will say that it's a lot of miseducation, lack of education and just knowing of what really happened during slavery.

The relationships dynamics - in all forms.

Many Black Americans think of slavery as a made for TV movie (because that is what they mainly know) - where their ancestor fell in love with their enslaver - not understanding that was very rare. So, in that young man's case - he was hoping for that - and sadly most likely hoping for a connection / welcoming from you + your family.

I am lucky because I have distant relatives who are descendants of my ancestors enslavers reaching out to me and welcoming me in. Which is beautiful. That is what prompted this thread.

I am actually going to Alabama this weekend to meet my 4rd Cousin who is a white woman whose mother is the spitting image of my mom. Our 2nd Great Granddads were brothers - who both served in the Confederate Army together.

She has invited me to Church and a big family dinner in my mom's hometown.

She is the nicest person ever - I am excited to go - but I have some anxiety as well - as she is going to show me the area where the plantation and family store once stood and more.

Dedej, I watched a video sometime back of a black woman in Alabama who belonged to genealogical groups and met a woman who was a descendant of her ancestor's enslaver. She thought she was lucky as the enslaver's descendant had done a lot of the genealogical work and she was now able to use that to trace her own family more easily. Both my husband and I have "cousins" who are black that show up in DNA matches. Since I've looked at old wills and administrative schedules, I've compiled the list of slave names from those and put them in prominent places on the ancestry family trees so that those who are seriously looking for ancestors might be able to negotiate their way.

My husband had one young man who matched his DNA, but his family tree went only back to the 1870 brick wall. Because we had other matches in other parts of my husband's family, I contacted one of them as and asked him to look through his DNA matches to see if this young black man was there. We were able to isolate the great-great grandfather who might have been his ancestor, also by the county location of the "cousin's" great grandmother in the census. I think those of us whose families were enslavers have a role to play in helping younger generations trace your heritage.

I don't offer this as any kind of excuse/rationalization--just something for you to know about some of those who came to Alabama and built "plantations." My husband's GGG grandfathers all came out of South Carolina, where they were dirt farmers or carpenters. None of them owned slaves there and the wives were illiterate--these were not the descendants of many generations of aristocrats of Virginia or South Carolina.

There's a book I read by a retired judge, Val McGee, entitled Selma, A Novel of the Civil War, that's been very helpful to me in looking at the background of families and history. It's not the best novel you'll ever read and perhaps not the best Civil War history. But, judges spend their days listening to stories, lots of stories, by the widest variety of people you can imagine. McGee took some actual cases and spun stories around them, made us remember that life is complicated and not always the straight story that we'd like to think it. I've found since then that legal cases often give a different view than that provided us by historians. Selma might also be helpful to you as it's about Alabama, where McGee was a judge.
 
To me, that is not something I am proud of and I am pretty sure - if alive -- they wouldn't be too proud of me claiming them as well.
It's a very thought-provoking thread and I think your comment that I have quoted (just above) is a particularly good insight.
Thanks for launching this thread.
 
Dedej, I watched a video sometime back of a black woman in Alabama who belonged to genealogical groups and met a woman who was a descendant of her ancestor's enslaver. She thought she was lucky as the enslaver's descendant had done a lot of the genealogical work and she was now able to use that to trace her own family more easily. Both my husband and I have "cousins" who are black that show up in DNA matches. Since I've looked at old wills and administrative schedules, I've compiled the list of slave names from those and put them in prominent places on the ancestry family trees so that those who are seriously looking for ancestors might be able to negotiate their way.

My husband had one young man who matched his DNA, but his family tree went only back to the 1870 brick wall. Because we had other matches in other parts of my husband's family, I contacted one of them as and asked him to look through his DNA matches to see if this young black man was there. We were able to isolate the great-great grandfather who might have been his ancestor, also by the county location of the "cousin's" great grandmother in the census. I think those of us whose families were enslavers have a role to play in helping younger generations trace your heritage.

I don't offer this as any kind of excuse/rationalization--just something for you to know about some of those who came to Alabama and built "plantations." My husband's GGG grandfathers all came out of South Carolina, where they were dirt farmers or carpenters. None of them owned slaves there and the wives were illiterate--these were not the descendants of many generations of aristocrats of Virginia or South Carolina.

There's a book I read by a retired judge, Val McGee, entitled Selma, A Novel of the Civil War, that's been very helpful to me in looking at the background of families and history. It's not the best novel you'll ever read and perhaps not the best Civil War history. But, judges spend their days listening to stories, lots of stories, by the widest variety of people you can imagine. McGee took some actual cases and spun stories around them, made us remember that life is complicated and not always the straight story that we'd like to think it. I've found since then that legal cases often give a different view than that provided us by historians. Selma might also be helpful to you as it's about Alabama, where McGee was a judge.

Thanks so much for responding @18thVirginia!

I think those of us whose families were enslavers have a role to play in helping younger generations trace your heritage.

I have to say you saying that is so refreshing and encouraging. I admit it's something I feel uncomfortable about when I have reached out to certain DNA/surname matches --- but as I have mentioned - everyone has been helpful and kind.

It is actually exceptional individuals like you and your husband that have reached out to me offering help and informing me of our connection.

The increase of the Ancestry DNA, 23&Me, GEDMatch, etc. - in addition to people wanting to learn more about their family's story by working on their family tree -- will make conversations and inquiries like this more commonplace.

I don't offer this as any kind of excuse/rationalization--just something for you to know about some of those who came to Alabama and built "plantations." My husband's GGG grandfathers all came out of South Carolina, where they were dirt farmers or carpenters. None of them owned slaves there and the wives were illiterate--these were not the descendants of many generations of aristocrats of Virginia or South Carolina.

Thanks for offering this. I definitely know that their are many families whose legacy/history doesn't include slavery. And by choice --- not because they weren't financially able too. Researching my genealogy and being a member of CWT has taught me so much --- and helped dispel myths and falsehoods.

Selma, A Novel of the Civil War

Thanks for the recommendation! I will add this to my reading list.
 
As others have stated there are similar situations in genealogical work -- rape, infidelity, fostering, adoption, even accidental swapping of babies. What people learn to do is differentiate between their feelings and what is on paper.

"Yeah, these are the ancestors who passed down their DNA to me, but some of them I despise, and they would despise me."

P.S. My g-grandfather shot my g-grandmother in the back twice, and then in the forehead. He gave me his DNA and his last name. Not proud of that.
 
I stopped (for a long time until recently) looking back at my ancestors when my Dad told me we had a cattle rustler and a carney in out past family! :smile:

Well, I will say it can be very difficult - but it's also VERY rewarding! You should keep it up.

I have Great Grandfathers who fought on both sides of the Civil War (Confederate and Black Union Soldiers) and one was a Buffalo Solider.

I also have Rosa Parks and Bass Reeves "The Lone Ranger" as distant relatives.
 
Imagine my excitement when I learned that my GG Grandfather was a Civil War veteran, and later, that his grandson was still living and about my age! This newly discovered distant cousin, whose father was the youngest child of the veteran's second marriage to a much younger woman, was even named after our common ancestor.
When we finally spoke on the phone I expressed my puzzlement that my grandmother never mentioned her mother's (and his) side of the family.
There was a moment of silence and then he said "well if you know anything about the S*******'s, she probably had d*** good reason." I never pressed further but you've got the idea. Sometimes it's good to leave well enough alone.:wink:
 
The only "famous" people I seem to be at all closely-related to take so much explaining that I doubt they actually qualify as "famous." For instance, I appear to be a descendant of the medieval Welsh king Hywel Dda. That's pretty neat-- the "Dda" means "the good," and he is credited [this is disputed, but it's at least the tradition] with codifying the laws in Wales that were more or less consistently applied until the Act of Union under Henry VIII.

Or, I'm descended directly from the younger brother of the "Blue Knight of Gwent." Again, neat stuff, but if one has to explain who the heck it is, I'm guessing they're not "famous."

I guess I just come from extremely ordinary stock. :laugh:
 
I stopped (for a long time until recently) looking back at my ancestors when my Dad told me we had a cattle rustler and a carney in out past family! :smile:
Ha! I actually worked a summer for a guy who was arrested and later convicted for cattle rustling that fall. I only did odd jobs like irrigating and digging musk thistles. I had no hand in his enterprising cattle operation. :smile:
 
Imagine my excitement when I learned that my GG Grandfather was a Civil War veteran, and later, that his grandson was still living and about my age! This newly discovered distant cousin, whose father was the youngest child of the veteran's second marriage to a much younger woman, was even named after our common ancestor.
When we finally spoke on the phone I expressed my puzzlement that my grandmother never mentioned her mother's (and his) side of the family.
There was a moment of silence and then he said "well if you know anything about the S*******'s, she probably had d*** good reason." I never pressed further but you've got the idea. Sometimes it's good to leave well enough alone.:wink:

Thanks for sharing! :smile:

I understand! My last name is not really supposed to be my last name. My dad took his mom's husband last name - and my dad's mom had my daddy and aunt when her and her husband were separated (a affair with my Granddaddy...). So, that was something to find out!

That one was .... :O o:
 
Hi everyone :smile:

This one is a hard for me. I know this is a personal call for every individual who is a descendant of slaves and enslavers --- but I am torn.

I guess my first answer/response would be NO - because they -- 99.8% (my personal statistical assumption) - didn't see my ancestors (slaves) as "family" - and the way most Black Americans have non-African DNA is not through a "loving" consensual relationship.

For Black Americans it's really complicated. The only ancestry I can trace is in slavery - so even though the blood/DNA of my ancestors who were enslavers (or overseers) are in me - do I claim them as my ancestors as well? Should I trace their ancestry and claim as mine?

I ask this because I have been meeting some of my "cousins" --- and they have been so sweet and kind to me - but it's hard to say "our Great Granddad" or "OUR" in general. For instance, I have white ancestors that served in the Confederate Army - do I share/claim that?

To me,
that is not something I am proud of and I am pretty sure - if alive -- they wouldn't be too proud of me claiming them as well.

So what gives? Would you -- if you were in Black American's shoes? Should we? Or is it weird to do? I am still leaning towards no.

I distinguish between ancestry and heritage. I have European ancestors, but I have an African American heritage. This heritage is a social construction, built on the fact that the children of interracial liaisons were relegated to a non-white (non-European) status by the European-descent members of United States society.

- Alan
 
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I distinguish between ancestry and heritage. I have European ancestors, but I have an African American heritage. This heritage is a social construction, built on the fact that the children of interracial liaisons were relegated to a non-white (non-European) status by the European-descent members of United States society.

- Alan

As I see it, they sure wouldn't claim you, so why claim them?
 
I am actually going to Alabama this weekend to meet my 4rd Cousin who is a white woman whose mother is the spitting image of my mom. Our 2nd Great Granddads were brothers - who both served in the Confederate Army together.

She has invited me to Church and a big family dinner in my mom's hometown.

She is the nicest person ever - I am excited to go - but I have some anxiety as well - as she is going to show me the area where the plantation and family store once stood and more.


I just wanted to give everyone an update :smile: I went to Alabama - Henry County last weekend and met my 4th Cousin. She and her daughter initially reached out to me via Ancestry and GEDMatch about our connection.

Even though she's in her late 70's she very active in life and in genealogy research. I could barely keep up with her! :smile:

She took me to lots of "special" family places in the county that mean a lot to her and her (our) family history. I also got to see a picture of my 3rd Great Grandfather and many more photographs. She also showed me the family Bible/records and I was able to see my ancestors name listed as one of the enslaved.

Honestly, it was really emotional - but I am VERY emotional person - but it was also healing as well. She and about 15 other of my other distant family members cooked me a wonderful dinner - which included my absolute favorite --Fried Green Tomatoes -- even being so sweet and understanding about me being Vegan and watching my figure..lol. They also gave me a big bag of Pecans and Peanuts to take home - which I LOVE.

I can not tell you how much fun I had.

The funniest (and cutest) thing was they wanted to introduce me to everyone we saw. Some people even thought I was a personality or celebrity :redface:. I get that everywhere though...lol.

She and other relatives have already invited me back for the Holidays - and I can't express how much that means to me.
The experience was great and I am very happy I went-- and gained + opened a door to a such a wonderful woman and family.
 
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