Shooting the Burnside Carbine

Whiteleather

Private
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
See a few thread from guys with Burnside carbines, but is anyone shooting theirs? Here's mine:



5909a015-ddc2-4aaa-a***-4f456383aa33_zpsyrtayhsd.jpg



Here is what I am shooting: 348gr lead bullet over 35-45gr FF Pyrodex in a brass case. I use no fillers, but do use a .45 cal lubed wad between bullet and powder. Standard RWS musket cap provides the spark. This gives me about 850-900fps:

7bab595a-a239-4e52-bd83-e2727e27bc67_zpsnqzhcii6.jpg


Here is how she shoots at 50 yards. The POA is so low because the sights seem to have a minimum setting of 100 yards:

213c871b-afd9-460a-a02a-5c266656c1a9_zps3pql7nzf.jpg


The brass cases are kind of expensive, about $4-$7 each. Be sure you do not buy the brass cases with a FLAT bottom. You want the small divot in the bottom to fit the platinum nipple in the bottom of the breech block. I recently bought some nylon cases from Lodgewood for $0.75 each. They fit perfectly, but you have to flare the mouth to start the bullet. Be gentle or you will crack it. I have used all mine once, and three out of 12 have cracked already, but at such a low cost it is not that big a loss.

I order my bullets from Pat Kaboskey ([email protected]). Turnaround time is longer than buying from a stocking dealer, but the price is much better. S&S here in NY carries bullets and cases too.


Side note: When I first got my Burnside I went to BassPro to ask about black powder loading (don't laugh....I was new). The guy at the desk said I had to use 150gr of black powder to get the bullet out of the barrel......what? You can't even get half of that in the cartridge. Thankfully I ran into a skirmisher familiar with the Burnside at a gun show and he walked me through the whole process. This is why we need places like CivilWarTalk.com!
 
Even though my only experience with Burnside's is the many bullets I have dug in CW US Cav camps, I'm always fascinated with you folks that shoot these CW weapons. Great looking Burnside.
 
That's not a bad grouping considering you are shooting a 150+ year old carbine with open sights. I think your shooting score would quailfy if you wanted to sign up for a Union or Confederate Cavalry regiment.
 
Jobe: Yes, it is shooting high. Note that point of aim is at 6 o'clock on the bottom circle whilst the points of impact are near the center of the upper circle. Apologies if that was confused in the photo.
 
Great Pixs..Thanks..I never saw a cartridge like that...

Yes! Its unique to be sure. One great feature of the shape is that it can't get stuck in the chamber. A straight walled case could really be a pain, but the taper means if you can rotate the case a fraction of an inch it will pull right out.

When my chamber gets dirty carts get a little sticky. I just jam a fresh cart into the used cart and twist. The used cart pops right out....though I will admit to getting a used cart stuck pretty hard on a fresh one. Now I carry a wood dowel to pull used carts out.
 
Even though my only experience with Burnside's is the many bullets I have dug in CW US Cav camps, I'm always fascinated with you folks that shoot these CW weapons. Great looking Burnside.

The wood and bore are near mint. I offered to send it to Pedersoli as a model if they would promise to make repros. They declined.

Too bad. That bullet is like a flying thumb and really whacks the steel targets.
 
Whiteleather - I am surprised you are having difficulty getting the cases out of the chamber. The rear section of the breech block, with the nipple as shown in your photo, is spring loaded and should be pushed backwards when the breech is closed on a live round. After firing, when the breech is opened this separate section is pushed forward by the cam action of the internal shape of arc inside the frame. This in turn pushes the case forward about 1/8", thereby effectively breaking the case loose from the chamber. If this moveable part of the breech block is frozen in place it will not break the case loose. This was an important part of the design which prevented cases becoming stuck in the breech chamber.
J.
 
Whiteleather - I am surprised you are having difficulty getting the cases out of the chamber. The rear section of the breech block, with the nipple as shown in your photo, is spring loaded and should be pushed backwards when the breech is closed on a live round. After firing, when the breech is opened this separate section is pushed forward by the cam action of the internal shape of arc inside the frame. This in turn pushes the case forward about 1/8", thereby effectively breaking the case loose from the chamber. If this moveable part of the breech block is frozen in place it will not break the case loose. This was an important part of the design which prevented cases becoming stuck in the breech chamber.
J.

Hi Whiteleather,
I, too, have a 5th model Burnside which I plan on shooting. I bought the same bullets and plastic cases from the same sources as yourself. One question - what do you use to flare the mouth of the plastic cases? I have used round balls which work OK but conical ones are a bit more difficult/ I guess I will just keep a spare round ball handy!
 
Whiteleather - I am surprised you are having difficulty getting the cases out of the chamber. The rear section of the breech block, with the nipple as shown in your photo, is spring loaded and should be pushed backwards when the breech is closed on a live round. After firing, when the breech is opened this separate section is pushed forward by the cam action of the internal shape of arc inside the frame. This in turn pushes the case forward about 1/8", thereby effectively breaking the case loose from the chamber. If this moveable part of the breech block is frozen in place it will not break the case loose. This was an important part of the design which prevented cases becoming stuck in the breech chamber.
J.

Jobe: "Sticky" is not stuck. Usually the cases will fall right out, but since I reload right on the spot I am often putting a dirty case in to a dirty chamber. That is where the sticky comes in.

You are correct about the chamber, but the tolerances are so tight that a little grit can keep the breech block from sliding under the power of the spring. The spring may be weak, or it could be that as the chamber heats up the lube runs out. Its no problem using another case to get the previous case out. I have been shooting it for 8 years and we get along just fine like this.
 
I have a model 5 Burnside but have not tired it. How would you know it is safe to fire? Concerned about metal fatigue.

That is a very good question. Frankly the guns were made very well so unless you see some obvious problem (cracks, warps or excessive pitting inside and out) it is likely safe to shoot.

Whenever I get a new black powder rifle I shoot it in stages. The first stage is just to make sure the cap fires and the flash path is clear. Then I load a case with standard shot of powder but only a wad. No bullet. I shoot that by hand and check for gas leaks.

Next I load the lowest possible charge with whatever bullet is standard and shoot that from a distance with a string (rifle is in a Lead Sled device). Check for gas leaks or any cracks.

Next I go up to a charge between the low dose and the factory recommended with a standard bullet and shoot that with a string. Check for gas leaks or cracks. If its all good I start working on a load that is fun to shoot and easy on the gun.

For my Burnside I have settled on 35-40gr under a 348gr soft lead bullet. I load by eye and usually have 37g of FF in there. I don't use the lube grooves, instead I lube the bullet in the case just before I shoot it (Bore Butter). I load my rounds up in advance and don't like the lube to run into the powder on hot days. By lubing as I go I always get good ignition.

If you are not a shooting person, find someone nearby who can help. If you are already a shooter, everything I said will look familiar.

It is a messy gun to shoot. Soot gets into every nook and cranny. Before shooting anything learn to take it apart down to its springs and screws. It will give you a HUGE appreciation for the design and machining of the thing. It will also give you the confidence to take it apart for good cleaning and lubing. I tend to shoot my two carbines at the same time....them come home, turn on the radio, open a beer and clean them both completely. Takes about an hour or so to do both guns.

As I said in my introduction post on the Newcomer section: I don't know much about the CW, but I do know my guns inside and out. The Burnside is a wonder of early tolerances.
 
Hi Whiteleather,
I, too, have a 5th model Burnside which I plan on shooting. I bought the same bullets and plastic cases from the same sources as yourself. One question - what do you use to flare the mouth of the plastic cases? I have used round balls which work OK but conical ones are a bit more difficult/ I guess I will just keep a spare round ball handy!

I use a glass marble to open the mouth. Its part of my loading box. The marble is bigger than the diameter of the case mouth. After charging with powder and putting in my wad I twist the marble back and forth at the case mouth. Like I am trying to polish it. The combination of pressure and friction makes just enough heat to slightly flare the mouth.

Don't go too far or the case will not chamber easily. Not a problem, just press the case mouth toward the bullet with your finger and thumb while you twist it back and forth with the other hand. Dont' press too hard or you will cut some very nasty half moon slashes into your thumb and finger! That nylon is sharp.

Should mention that I use a wooden form that fits over the bullet, then I whack it with a hammer to seat it. So my cases sit in a board with holes in it like a loading tray. I charge them, then put in the wad. Then I flare the mouth and fit a bullet in each. Then I go down the line and whack the bullets home. I hit the bullet into the case, not the case over the bullet. That could be important to know.

Have you counted how many shots you have on each of your nylon cases? I bet some data on lifespan would help the makers.
 
That is a very good question. Frankly the guns were made very well so unless you see some obvious problem (cracks, warps or excessive pitting inside and out) it is likely safe to shoot.

Whenever I get a new black powder rifle I shoot it in stages. The first stage is just to make sure the cap fires and the flash path is clear. Then I load a case with standard shot of powder but only a wad. No bullet. I shoot that by hand and check for gas leaks.

Next I load the lowest possible charge with whatever bullet is standard and shoot that from a distance with a string (rifle is in a Lead Sled device). Check for gas leaks or any cracks.

Next I go up to a charge between the low dose and the factory recommended with a standard bullet and shoot that with a string. Check for gas leaks or cracks. If its all good I start working on a load that is fun to shoot and easy on the gun.

For my Burnside I have settled on 35-40gr under a 348gr soft lead bullet. I load by eye and usually have 37g of FF in there. I don't use the lube grooves, instead I lube the bullet in the case just before I shoot it (Bore Butter). I load my rounds up in advance and don't like the lube to run into the powder on hot days. By lubing as I go I always get good ignition.

If you are not a shooting person, find someone nearby who can help. If you are already a shooter, everything I said will look familiar.

It is a messy gun to shoot. Soot gets into every nook and cranny. Before shooting anything learn to take it apart down to its springs and screws. It will give you a HUGE appreciation for the design and machining of the thing. It will also give you the confidence to take it apart for good cleaning and lubing. I tend to shoot my two carbines at the same time....them come home, turn on the radio, open a beer and clean them both completely. Takes about an hour or so to do both guns.

As I said in my introduction post on the Newcomer section: I don't know much about the CW, but I do know my guns inside and out. The Burnside is a wonder of early tolerances.
I do C.W. Reenactment as an infantry man with my Navy arms repo 58 cal musket. I have fired my 45cal hawkens rifle and Kentucky pistol at a range.
 
Back
Top