Sherman Sherman was a hero

I will repeat what I have said earlier. As far as I can tell the majority of my ancestors wore Gray. That said, you all can belly ache about how many lives Hood lost at Franklin. I wonder how many Sherman saved by pointing out for real no kidding for sure you guys can't win. By pointing out that the Union ARmy could go where they pretty much wanted. And do pretty much what they wanted. I must say, war is a nasty business and if you don't want to get involved in nasty business don't start wars you are not in the least capable of winning.

Pinckney
 
The Lieber Codes were binding against the military. I would like someone to show me where burning occupied or unoccupied homes is okay.

dvrmte
 
I will repeat what I have said earlier. As far as I can tell the majority of my ancestors wore Gray. That said, you all can belly ache about how many lives Hood lost at Franklin. I wonder how many Sherman saved by pointing out for real no kidding for sure you guys can't win. By pointing out that the Union ARmy could go where they pretty much wanted. And do pretty much what they wanted. I must say, war is a nasty business and if you don't want to get involved in nasty business don't start wars you are not in the least capable of winning.

Pinckney

The problem is that the people who started the war and the people who suffered from those who think civilian losses are Just Too Bad when it happens to the other guy are not the same people. Unless the women and children and those too sickly to be part of the old men and young boys militia were the ones demanding war.

War is a nasty business is something to make less bad, not to make so bad that people who actually care about whether or not their country is in the right before supporting it think unpatriotic thoughts.

Sherman could point out that the war could not be won without doing anything cruel or unusual. Or he could treat the idea of cruel and unusual as irrelevant - which, if all one is concerned about is winning, may be the case - it didn't prolong the war to be cruel and unusual.

But it wasn't necessary and anything done that was wasn't right.
 
A wise man once said that a good leader will do anything needed to get the job done and just worry about the consequences later one. I guess Sherman was that kind of a leader.
 
I would agree with Ms. Hale 15,17,18 do seem to grant Sherman authority to do the majority of the things he did..Now the burning of occupied homes itself was against his own orders unless under certain circumstances ans then it was left for I believe the Corps commanders to make that call..
 
I liked the one in which Lieber wrote, "Sharp wars are brief." Sherman put a fine edge on it.

Now a challenge. Show what Sherman did that was against what in the Code.
 
I would agree with Ms. Hale 15,17,18 do seem to grant Sherman authority to do the majority of the things he did..Now the burning of occupied homes itself was against his own orders unless under certain circumstances ans then it was left for I believe the Corps commanders to make that call..
That's right. It should be noted that many things went on that were against Sherman's express orders.

As I've said before, there ought to have been tighter control over this, but I don't think it qualifies as a Lieber Code violation on Sherman's part if he specifically ordered against it (which he did).
 
It was known on the Confederate side that staying home would (almost) guarantee that your home would not be burned. Leaving would guarantee its loss.
 
Yeah, I think I would definitely have GTFO if I could. An enemy army approaching, all the menfolks gone, kids to care for, crazy scary rumors flying... I'd be out of there if I had anywhere to go. Guess I'd have come back to a pile of ashes.
 
It was known on the Confederate side that staying home would (almost) guarantee that your home would not be burned. Leaving would guarantee its loss.

If you are making this statement in Shermans case, may be true. If it is a general statement, then I request some sources. That is news to me.
 
Trudeau's book, "Southern Storm" for starters. Several others, as well. I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't read it. Confederates were asked (ordered? try ordering a southerner to do anything) to burn anything of value to the advancing army. If I'm not totally offside, the same orders recommended staying in their homes. If it wasn't in those "orders," it was known.

I think it was Bama who said it took nads to stay, and it probably did, but it remains that occupied homes were not automatically burned.
 
23. Private citizens are no longer murdered, enslaved, or carried off to distant parts, and the inoffensive individual is as little disturbed in his private relations as the commander of the hostile troops can afford to grant in the overruling demands of a vigorous war.

Roswell women?

34. As a general rule, the property belonging to churches, to hospitals, or other establishments of an exclusively charitable character, to establishments of education, or foundations for the promotion of knowledge, whether public schools, universities, academies of learning or observatories, museums of the fine arts, or of a scientific character-such property is not to be considered public property in the sense of paragraph 31; but it may be taxed or used when the public service may require it.

http://sciway3.net/clark/allendale/histlower3runsbaptist.html
The year of 1865 might well be the year of years in the history of the church. This year would see the second largest membership in the church's history, its building destroyed in the war between the states and the ultimate disbanding of the mother church at the original site which which would bring about the union of the mother church and the daughter church which would result in the continuation of the original church. In the year of 1865, the total membership of the church was 213. There were 35 white members and 178 black or colored members. It was in 1865 that the soldiers of the northern army (Sherman's troops) tore down the building to make a bridge across the Lower Three Runs Creek to replace the one that the confederate soldiers had destroyed in their effort to slow the progress of the union forces. Material not used for the bridge is said to have been burned. After the destruction of the church building, the congregation met outdoors until 1868 when the site was disbanded and the original congregation merged with the Tom's Branch congregation and formed the Lower Three Runs of today.

47. Crimes punishable by all penal codes, such as arson, murder, maiming, assaults, highway robbery, theft, burglary, fraud, forgery, and rape, if committed by an American soldier in a hostile country against its inhabitants, are not only punishable as at home, but in all cases in which death is not inflicted the severer punishment shall be preferred.

From Sherman's memoirs:
After finishing our lunch, as we passed out of the dining room,
General Blair asked me, if I did not want some saddle-blankets, or
a rug for my tent, and, leading me into the hall to a space under
the stairway, he pointed out a pile of carpets which had also been
sent up from Charleston for safety. After our headquarter-wagons
got up, and our bivouac was established in a field near by, I sent
my orderly (Walter) over to General Blair, and he came back
staggering under a load of carpets, out of which the officers and
escort made excellent tent-rugs, saddle-cloths, and blankets.
 
I bumped this one just because I wanted to. One of my favorite Sherman threads. You guys who think he's the devil really, really need to read it. It may not change your mind, but at least you'll get some of the truth.
 
I belong to another board where bumping old threads is frowned in. Glad this place isn't like that.
 
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