Sherman Sherman said that an entire class of Southerners had to be killed

Frrest

Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
I first posted this material in the New Recruits area, but it really belongs here, and what I have since found in Sherman’s writings may be of interest.

The writer David Goldman, who also publishes under the pen name "Spengler" (referring to the historian Oswald Spengler) wrote a column for the June 12, 2003 edition of The Asia Times, entitled "More Killing, Please!" He has since recycled this column several times in various other publications. At present you may read it quoted in full in a more recent column:

https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2017/05/05/more-killing-please-mr-president/

Here are Goldman/Spengler's words (from 2003) which inspire my curiosity:

"In all, one-quarter of military age Southern manhood died in the field, by far the greatest sacrifice ever offered up by a modern nation in war. General W T Sherman, the scourge of the South, explained why this would occur in advance. There existed 300,000 fanatics in the South who knew nothing but hunting, drinking, gambling and dueling, a class who benefited from slavery and would rather die than work for a living. To end the war, Sherman stated on numerous occasions these 300,000 had to be killed."

In my original post on the New Recruits forum I asked if anyone knew of a source for such a statement by Sherman, and two members (diane and rbasin) said they recalled something like it in Sherman’s correspondence, in particular with Halleck. That clue led me to discover something relevant, in Sherman’s Memoirs, near the end of Chapter XIII: Vicksburg. January to July, 1863.

Upon receipt of a letter from Halleck, dated August 29, 1863, which brought up "the question of reconstruction in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arkansas," Sherman replied "unofficially" as Halleck had suggested, so that he could express himself freely without being annoyed by the press.

[from Sherman's reply to Halleck]---------------------------------------------------

H. W. HALLECK, Commander-in-Chief, Washington, D. C.

...We accepted the issue, and now [the Southerners] begin to realize that war is a two-edged sword, and it may be that many of the inhabitants cry for peace. I know them well, and the very impulses of their nature; and to deal with the inhabitants of that part of the South which borders on the great river, we must recognize the classes into which they have divided themselves:

[Sherman lists and describes four classes: The large planters, the "smaller farmers, mechanics, merchants, and laborers", the Southern-residing Union adherents, and finally, "the young bloods of the South." I have bolded one sentence.]

Fourth. The young bloods of the South: sons of planters, lawyers about towns, good billiard-players and sportsmen, men who never did work and never will. War suits them, and the rascals are brave, fine riders, bold to rashness, and dangerous subjects in every sense. They care not a sou for ******s, land, or any thing. They hate Yankees per se, and don't bother their brains about the past, present, or future. As long as they have good horses, plenty of forage, and an open country, they are happy. This is a larger class than most men suppose, and they are the most dangerous set of men that this war has turned loose upon the world. They are splendid riders, first-rate shots, and utterly reckless. Stewart, John Morgan, Forrest, and Jackson, are the types and leaders of this class. These men must all be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace. They have no property or futures, and therefore cannot be influenced by any thing, except personal considerations.

[End of letter extract]----------------------------------------------------------------------


Goldman is a highly educated fellow, very careful of his reputation as a scholarly writer, and therefore I incline to believe his claim that Sherman said something like this more than once, and somewhere also mentioned the figure 300,000 in this context. But so far I have only found the above. Any further ideas, anyone?

If I ever manage to find other Sherman statements which complete the picture, I’ll be sure to post them here, for the sake of completing an investigation. I may also attempt to communicate with Goldman himself.
 
The writer David Goldman, who also publishes under the pen name "Spengler"


As info: Link
From 1976 to 1982, Goldman was responsible for economic publications in the quasi-leftist Lyndon LaRouche movement.[3] Goldman has described himself during that period as a radical and an atheist. After leaving LaRouchism he became a conservative, and worked for the Reagan administration and later on Wall Street.[4
According to Goldman, following in Rosenzweig's footsteps, a people's beliefs about its past and future decide its fate, since the propagation of one's culture is an imitation of immortality, the desire for which is so strong that it shapes history. So a nation's future is heavily influenced by what provides it with a vision of life after death: religion. Goldman thinks that the true strength of a nation is exposed during the encounter with the modern age, with globalization and an open and changing array of perceptions and ideas. The common tendency, especially in Europe, to nationalize religion by adding to it a pseudo-Hebraic belief that the nation is the divinely 'chosen people' condemns peoples to downfall when their nationalism (and the religion it is entwined with) is ruined by political circumstances.[citation needed] When religion and patriotism are thus destroyed, a people loses hope for the future and therefore ceases to bear enough children to prevent demographic collapse.

Baah, we've seen his bull...before. :nah disagree:
 
Sherman also complained that his volunteer troops were such whiners he would requisition 2 wet nurses for each soldier.

Point is Sherman was well known to engage in hyperbole. Not every word Sherman wrote said was intended to be taken literally. The best source for Sherman uncensored is Sherman’s Civil War: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0807824402/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

His memoirs are more filtered for the public but still a great insight into the man.
 
One of Sherman’s letters is rather intriguing, but it’s difficult to find it on the Internet because most that are cited or posted are behind pay walls.

But it’s a letter written to a Major Sawyer in January of 1864 and outlines his justification for total war, I believe. If I remember, it ends with him telling Sawyer to let the Southerners read it “to prepare them for my coming.”

Maybe someone here who is better than I am, can do a search to see if that letter is available on the Internet and can post it here.
 
There is another fascinating disertation from his (Sherman's) memoir, along this line.

He and Lincoln had an ongoing letter writing relationship...even though the 2 men had only met each other in person twice...and very briefly (before the late war conference with Grant on Admiral Porter's ship).

This one particular letter, Uncle Billy laid out his argument, in 10 points, to the President why he felt that the Southern Cavalry was the best in the world, at that time. Lincoln was so impressed by Sherman's letter, and reasoning that he (Lincoln) wanted to have the letter published in the newspaper (Sherman talked him out of it).
 
As info: Link
From 1976 to 1982, Goldman was responsible for economic publications in the quasi-leftist Lyndon LaRouche movement.[3] Goldman has described himself during that period as a radical and an atheist. After leaving LaRouchism he became a conservative, and worked for the Reagan administration and later on Wall Street.[4
According to Goldman, following in Rosenzweig's footsteps, a people's beliefs about its past and future decide its fate, since the propagation of one's culture is an imitation of immortality, the desire for which is so strong that it shapes history. So a nation's future is heavily influenced by what provides it with a vision of life after death: religion. Goldman thinks that the true strength of a nation is exposed during the encounter with the modern age, with globalization and an open and changing array of perceptions and ideas. The common tendency, especially in Europe, to nationalize religion by adding to it a pseudo-Hebraic belief that the nation is the divinely 'chosen people' condemns peoples to downfall when their nationalism (and the religion it is entwined with) is ruined by political circumstances.[citation needed] When religion and patriotism are thus destroyed, a people loses hope for the future and therefore ceases to bear enough children to prevent demographic collapse.

Baah, we've seen his bull...before. :nah disagree:
Actually there is a lot of truth that Goldman has stated but now we are getting into modern politics. An interesting topic for a PM thread if anyone is interested.
Leftyhunter
 
To which Jackson was Sherman referring? Stonewall was already dead.

Probably William Hicks "Red" Jackson, one of the most effective cavalrymen in the Western theater.

That was indeed Sherman barking and snarling about the planter class, whom he blamed for the war. The men he mentioned in his letter were cavalrymen - these men, who had lost everything and who were charismatic and brilliant, he considered to be the most dangerous men in the country. He feared a guerrilla war after the big war, and these were the men to lead it. He certainly did respect the Southern cavalrymen!
 
It seems to me that the essential phrase in Goldman's quote is ...on numerous occasions. Yet the author fails to give even one citation. If he were a reliable source, I would expect such a statement to be followed with such as or including when or for example. I remember the first post when nobody could come up with an example. I tracked down a reference from a similar claim to a particular letter Sherman wrote to his wife, but reading letters on or around that date revealed nothing like the claim. Unless someone here can provide a quotation, I'm ready to declare this an exaggeration at best.
 
That sounds like Sherman to me. Wasn't he the one who said he wanted to kill N.B. Forrest if it cost 10,000 men and bankrupted the treasury? Sherman was always the excitable type but is acumen for military strategy can not be questioned.
The biggest knock against Sherman would be as a tactical Commander. We have had at least a few threads critiquing Sherman for not adequately being prepared at Shiolh. In the biography " George Thomas Virginian for the Union" the author critiques Sherman for not following the sage advice if Major General Thomas in Georgia costing the unnecessary lids of life.
On the other hand no doubt Sherman's march through Georgia was brilliant.
Leftyhunter
 
Last edited:
Back
Top