Forrest Shelby VS. Forrest Poll

Who was better all around Shelby or Forrest


  • Total voters
    29
I once heard an interesting saying that went something like this.... "where I'm from... if you are raised right... you take off your hat when you hear the name Nathan Bedford Forrest."

Nathan_Bedford_Forrest.jpg

You gotta admit, Bedford Forrest looked as if he meant business.
 
Shelby

My hats off to Shelby and his men they buried the flag in the Rio Grande instead of every surrendering the flag is a true patriot to me. I like how they still looked for action in Mexico. To me Forrest may look prettier in his uni but Shelby had heart to keep going never to surrender.
 
My hats off to Shelby and his men they buried the flag in the Rio Grande instead of every surrendering the flag is a true patriot to me. I like how they still looked for action in Mexico. To me Forrest may look prettier in his uni but Shelby had heart to keep going never to surrender.

And this is a point in his favor...why?

Laying aside all questions of patriotism and such (sufficient to say, it would derail the thread)...what good is it? What is the point of fighting long after any possibility of victory or gaining anything but glory and scars has been lost?

Forrest had the good sense to recognize the Confederacy had lost. Shelby...well, taken on just those facts, is trying to deny that, at best.
 
And this is a point in his favor...why?

Laying aside all questions of patriotism and such (sufficient to say, it would derail the thread)...what good is it? What is the point of fighting long after any possibility of victory or gaining anything but glory and scars has been lost?

Forrest had the good sense to recognize the Confederacy had lost. Shelby...well, taken on just those facts, is trying to deny that, at best.

One of Elennsar's better posts. He's correct. Forrest had known in his mind for some time that the war effort was a bust. Like thousands of others, he was not excited about starting the ruckus in 1861. Survival was the goal for all, and the ultimate payoff. The reasons and goals for the struggle were still alive and Forrest knew there was much work to be done on the domestic front. He went to work trying to help rebuild the formerly Confederate states and his bank account. His health, however, had other plans.
 
An interesting observation from Ames I believe. "Forrest was a Brigand that became a brilliant General. Shelby was a Brilliant General who became a brigand."

I prefer Forrest because when I comapre the two Shelby always comes up short. Not from talent or individual courage but from number of engagements and results.
 
The Flag Confederate or Union

My point is this.. You as an American Confederate or Union should never surrender your battle standard or flag for it is sacred. Shelby and his men decided this flag is an honor and should not be a trophy to the Union so instead of burying it where it could be found they anchored it in water giving it a certain burial. That to me is the most honorable deed dont let your flag fall into enemy hands. I dont hear of anyone else doing this maybe so you guys will certainly tell me and that would be great to know. I just thought the guy lived for adventure and war some people live for it and thats all there good for to a degree. Say all you want about my post, just remeber Shelby never surrendered himself and his flag FORREST DID... P.S.(They both knew the war was at a lost cause, I'm sure of it.)
 
The symbolic value of the battle flag isn't a problem (though regarding it as "sacred" makes me torn between amusement and offense - speaking as someone on the line between agnosticism and faith - but nevermind that. For purposes of this thread, I'm just amused.). Its Shelby continuing to fight after the Confederacy finally recognized that the time to surrender had already happened.

Living for adventure and war are flaws in a military leader, not strengths.

It sounds all sorts of romantic and glorious until you start looking at the orphans.

If Shelby could accomplish something with his continued fighting, it would be worth something. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a tangible something.

For instance, capturing one final Federal outpost and then ordering his men to disband.

That might make some sort of sense. Somewhat. But not galloping off to Mexico with "Surrender? Never!" as their battle cry. (I say their because at that point, Shelby's men must have felt following him was a good idea, so its not just him as a lone fool - unless they seriously felt military discipline against "deserters" would amount to anything in those conditions)

That's not war.
 
Suruly some acts of men are different. some we could call even fanaticism. Certainly being a patriot was everything to Mr. Shelby and he diplayed his conviction. Well so did N. B. Forrest on a vastly larger scale, and knowing when to try to move to the future. Forrest was a Gigantic figure at the time, Shelby a minnow Fear may have led to his actions, I think not but you cannot evelate him or his status because of what he did, though Jesse James did well Kidding, but these men had different puplic responsibilites as a living legend vs. and a minor figue compared(shelby)
Ben
 
Going back to the issue of their military performance - did Shelby's superiors trust that he could take care of business?

Whether a "mere" brigadier general or a lieuteant general, that's high praise.

In a war with dozens of officers who were no more fit to command than to herd cats, anyone who could keep their commands in good shape is worthy of respect for that.
 
Do you not think Gen Forrest had to Grapple With the same? The most hated, Infamous commander the South still retained? He was the last Figure to surrender of any consequence, surely had NO idea of the future but after long deliberation ( much Affected by his Adjutant Major Charles Anderson) decided on what became the right course. Many or most would have followed him to Texas and he saw the better. Fear of reprisal hanging or death did not factor into his decicion. If anyone was going to hang he was at the top with JD or for propaganda. At the end he commanded over 10,000. One of his finest moments in a career with many was his final speech to his soldiers at dispersion printed many times here. Shelby of course deserves respect as I said, But this was a much larger Decision. Forrests Thousands like Shelby's Much much smaller command would I think done what the Gen said. Forrest should be commended for this I think.
Ben
 
At the end he commanded over 10,000.

This is where - and I don't mean it to question your honesty or anything like that - I have to ask "Where is this from?"

Ninety-percent of the reason being organizational curiosity. For a variety of reasons, some of which may have been legitimate, Forrest commanded a larger number of different units throughout the war than most generals.

So finding out who he was commanding, at the end of the war, would be interesting.

The other ten percent being just...well, at this point in the war, "organized Confederate armies" are rapidly becoming "as opposed to what? Out and out brigands?"

No disrespect to the men or their commanders, but things have fallen apart.
 
Ellensar, as I know U know Forrest was defeated By Gen James Wilson a great commander and student of Forrest (meaning the man was intelligent and learned from his mistakes, plus taking on tactics of Gen Forrest) at Selma the last battle. Forrest at the time had 15,000 under him. Yes he commanded many units, I have yet to see one forced in facted they took men from him who had deserted to fight with him. His plans were capured and Wilson whiped him badly, Forrest only able to Cut himself out, which he did. Many gravitated and expected Forrest to be the One man to Keep the fight. Yes thousands. I will get your documentation but It's already here. Many were rabid. Forrest decided after much reflection not to lead and he would have become the defacto leader of the South, to do what he did difusing what could have been a bad situation. Which leads to another thread, what if Forrest had called for arms? as many thought he might. This was no Shelby. And I would say good for him which before the war he voted 3 times not to disolve the union in Tenn (know that)to do what he did famously much pub here. Ben
 
If you've documentation of thousands of men under his command, I'd like to see it.

I'm not contesting it - just curious, as stated.

And yes, bravo for Forrest recognizing it was time to call it quits when he did. What he did after the war...well, let's leave that for elsewhere.

Wouldn't mind seeing where the claim he voted not to dissolve the Union is from, while searching.

You've read more specifically on Forrest than I have, so I presume this is from one of the books or articles on him.
 
Dr. Michael Bradley PHD Author (yes a favorite I think of Larry) and Forrest Expert. It is Record. He was an Alderman, It's Public record, and really benificial to his bussines...First he was one of the richest Men in the south, common sense ruled this. But when the war came He chose loyalty as he saw it. As far as after the war, well that is a matter of non Bias factual research. Not the man Demonized in fact the opposite>
 
I will settle your interrest in after the last battle as you wish, but it is not hard to imagine if you try to imagine the time and chaos, doubt, fear, saddness,anger, This was the man looked to by all. Had he chosen to we might just be talking about that and the most powerfull man in the west imediatly after. He was smarter, I believe his wife played a part(a ministers Daughter and HUGE influnce on him) and just what made him great to begin with. He was Lt. Gen Reg Army not a brigand or highwayman as some less familiar would say. His decision was one of the defining moments in ending the war and starting the flawed reunification procces. A real American, No EGO swayed by no one but his own principles/beliefs. The right thing by far at the time. Thanks Ellensar Ben
 
Really, well how about the Dvd adout Ft Pillow that even has Harold Ford Jr. Speaking fairly in context of the Gen. Bradley his Last Book Called Escort and StafF of NBF You are right to question but I don't make it up on this board. I don't love Forrest I just want a fair portrait free of Bias. That is wehy there are so many of us who support Forrest, I am not one of the great minds u know the 4-5 and I always appreciate your interest and questions. I answer only what I know about a man I was Biased AGAINSD until I gave a fair shot. Unfortunately we see it today. The Boxer just Murdered in the news was named Forrest.....History would tell us His ancestors were something to do with NBF.. I hate this part But THe real things when looked at U know me I won't go on All respect Ellensar Ben
 
Trust

Going back to the issue of their military performance - did Shelby's superiors trust that he could take care of business?

Whether a "mere" brigadier general or a lieuteant general, that's high praise.

In a war with dozens of officers who were no more fit to command than to herd cats, anyone who could keep their commands in good shape is worthy of respect for that.


I find this line quite amusing!! Elennsar have you ever read a book on Shelby?
[Going back to the issue of their military performance - did Shelby's superiors trust that he could take care of business?}
 
I find this line quite amusing!! Elennsar have you ever read a book on Shelby?
[Going back to the issue of their military performance - did Shelby's superiors trust that he could take care of business?}

If I had, I wouldn't be asking that question. I have done very little studying of the theater he fought in, and none at all of him specifically - and I have too much on my "to read" list to get around to reading any recommendations (though they're still welcome) in a timely fashion.

What I meant was - could Shelby keep a cavalry brigade in good shape? Keep the ranks as full as possible, keep the horses well fed, etc.
 
Back
Top