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Seeking Image Owner, USS John P. Jackson

Discussion in 'Civil War History - The Naval War' started by AndyHall, May 17, 2017 at 7:42 PM.

  1. AndyHall

    AndyHall Lt. Colonel Forum Host

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    J P Jackson.jpg

    A friend and colleague doing in-depth historical/technical research on converted ferries is seeking the owner of this image of U.S.S. John P. Jackson (sometimes given as J. P. Jackson), that sold in an online auction in 2011. Unfortunately neither the seller nor the appraiser retained records that identify the buyer. He's trying to obtain a high-resolution copy of the image. If you know who might have it, please let me know, or have that person let me know. Assistance would be tremendously appreciated.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM
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  3. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    Hmm. Close. Possibly same source?

    Watercolor of SS J. P. Jackson by Erik Heyl, 1962, painted for use in his book "Early American Steamers", Volume IV. Courtesy of Erik Heyl.
    US Navy photo # NH 63704 from the collections of the US Naval History and Heritage Command
    via
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/86/86282.htm
     
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  4. AndyHall

    AndyHall Lt. Colonel Forum Host

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    Perhaps, although the drawing in the photo shows considerably more detail. I'm sure my friend is looking for it because he's worked with at least one other original, eyewitness drawing (that looks to be very similar to this) of a converted ferry, that provided all sorts of tiny detail that is generally overlooked in most other depictions.
     
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  5. JohnDLittlefield

    JohnDLittlefield Sergeant

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    In one case I found that an auction house retained the rights to an image and had hi-res digital copies. Perhaps that is an avenue to pursue if if hasn't been traced out yet.
     
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  6. Mark F. Jenkins

    Mark F. Jenkins Lt. Colonel

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    No clue here, sorry! First time I've seen that image.
     
  7. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    The seller cashed the buyer's check, right?
     
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  8. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    Tweaked as best I could. I strongly suggest finding a pen-and-ink artist to extrapolate the details from this, rather than engaging in a low R.O.I. Snipe Hunt.
    GDPA4LV.jpg

    ...and for ready-reference's sake
    wjUHe7I.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    A potential illustrator asked "are there photos of any sister ships? or plans? I can't see anything that looks like a pilot house either. I assume that she is narrower towards the ends, but maybe not."

    So what sayeth the Peanut Gallery?
     
  10. AndyHall

    AndyHall Lt. Colonel Forum Host

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    The drawing in the OP likely has features mis-proportioned. My friend is (I think) looking for clarity on some of the details. The ends would be narrower, but still very wide, to accommodate traffic, probably similar to this. Note also the lack of a prominent pilothouse:

    ElevatedPhoto.jpg
     
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  11. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    From a modeler's perspective, I'd imagine the fore and aft gundecks would look essentially the same. The paddle wheel boxes on the gunboat show that the deckhouse has been peeled back closer to the keel line.

    The bulkheads in the drawing remind me of the style found on the ferrygunboat, but possibly running to the inside of the paddle wheels and not the outside.
    https://civilwartalk.com/threads/union-soldiers-and-sailors-on-an-unidentified-ferry-gunboat.123646/

    If viewed from above, I suspect the Jackson's deck profile would look less 'pregnant' amidships.
     
  12. DaveBrt

    DaveBrt First Sergeant

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    I agree with @Story that it has a non-pregnant look. I think the fwd pilot house is shown and the aft one can just barely be seen behind the boat.
     
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  13. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    Last edited: May 18, 2017 at 1:12 PM
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  14. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    The gundeck reminds me of this, but with this bow mirrored fore & aft on the Jackson.
    ct5UoZf.jpg
     
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  15. Kazziga

    Kazziga Corporal

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  16. Justin Parkoff

    Justin Parkoff Cadet

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    Andy, thank you for posting this for me. I was also glad to see that this image has stirred some interest. Thank you also to everyone on this forum for their willingness to help. These gunboats are fascinating because they really show human ingenuity during times of crisis and war.

    Although there were 20 known converted ferry gunboats (possibly more), these vessels are poorly documented which is something we hope to change. USS Westfield, USS Clifton, and USS J.P. Jackson were by far the largest of these vessels and the most heavily reconfigured. Part of this was to ensure their survival during their trip down the East Coast and into the Gulf of Mexico. This included lowering the hurricane deck, removing the fore and aft promenades, replacing passenger windows with portholes, planking over the sponsons, armoring the gun decks with boiler plate, plus SO much more.

    STORY: The seller did cash the check but claims they can't view those records. I tried, but I can't push them on that issue any longer. (Post # 6)

    Yes, we are exploring repositories in New York and New Jersey that might contain information on sister ships from the New Jersey Rail Road Line. That is currently a major direction of research. (Post # 8)

    For your first comment, Erik Heyl based many of his illustrations on the Bards Brothers paintings. The Bard Brothers created some of the most detailed and accurate representations of steam vessels during the 19th century (Post # 2). For example: The wikipedia link on JP Jackson.

    When they dismantled the fore and aft promenade coverings, the two pilot houses and their rudder chain boxes needed to move inward towards amidships so they could be rebuilt over surviving structures. That is why the gun decks look longer. But the bulwarks were completely torn down and reconstructed with oak backing and boiler armor. There are still two pilot houses, but they have been lowered. The aft one is barely visible above the longboat. A platform ( 2 total ) was set up in the engineering compartment to create a new floor/deck for the pilot. Inside the engineering compartment, the pilot would climb a few steps into the new pilot house. (Post # 8 & 10)

    There is a perspective error. The ship would still look "pregnant". They did not reduce the "guards" that surrounded the ship. That would have required removing the underlying sponsons and also that would have reduced the width of the gun decks. Please also note that Westfield, Clifton, and J.P. Jackson were much longer vessels than the USS Commodore Perry (Post # 9). Thus, the appearance of a wide amidships area is less noticeable.

    No crow's nest. You are seeing an exaggerated interpretation of the "top mast" going into the "top mast head". Also, although built like masts, these are actually signal posts. (Post #12- illustration)

    JOHN LITTLEFIELD: First of all, good to hear from you John. I hope you and Tuba are doing well! The original seller, appraiser, and auction house searched their records both on their databases and on external hard drives. Unfortunately, none of them kept records before 2012. The item sold in 2011. (Post # 4)

    Here are some of my older notes: ***please note that the top image is another historic eyewitness sketch when she was on the Mississippi.

    USS JP 5.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 12:37 PM
  17. Justin Parkoff

    Justin Parkoff Cadet

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    For those that might find this interesting, I contacted a few agencies that assist law enforcement detectives with photo enhancement. Much of what you see on TV regarding enhancement is pure Hollywood. Most of these services are offered as a last resort to show judges and juries that every attempt has been made to ensure the quality of the evidence. Based on what they told me, these services generally range between $1500-$2000 and the results are less than satisfying.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM
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  18. RochesterBill

    RochesterBill Private

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    A generous way to say "a waste of time and money"

    Been there more than once. The technicians promise the moon but very seldom deliver anything useable.

    Other than a big bill.
     
  19. AndyHall

    AndyHall Lt. Colonel Forum Host

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    Justin, welcome to the Civil War Talk. I think you will be pleased with the discussions here, particularly in the naval forum. We have lots of very knowledgeable folks here, who are very generous with their time and expertise.
     
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  20. Story

    Story Sergeant

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    Yeah, about that.... if Imagery Analysts don't know what questions to ask, it tends to cripple their results.


    You might like this thread -> https://civilwartalk.com/threads/rebel-cigar-steamer-at-washington-navy-yard-1866.130825/
     
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  21. JohnDLittlefield

    JohnDLittlefield Sergeant

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    @Justin Parkoff , Welcome! I think you'll find this to be a very helpful and friendly forum. The people here are great!
    I hope all is well.
     

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