Second Wisconsin Infantry - Iron Brigade

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A photo of some members of the famous Second Wisconsin Infantry. I've never seen the tin cup worn in that manner before. Also, note the dark blue pants instead of the sky blue ones worn by the rest of the brigade ( and the rest of the army pretty much ). IIRC, the Second were originally issued 1816 Harper's Ferry muskets converted to percussion, then they were given 1854 Austrian Lorentz muskets. Date of this photo is around 1861.
 
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View attachment 126309
Date of this photo is around 1861.

The 2nd Wisconsin didn't receive Austrian M1854s until January of 1862. Since that is what the men in this photo are armed with it would be impossible for that image to have been struck in 1861. It is much more likely that this image dates to the spring or summer of 1862 during the Peninsula campaign. There were a number of volunteer regiments in the Army of the Potomac that were wearing Regulars issue dark blue trousers.

Very cool image. Thanks for sharing.
 
View attachment 126309
A photo of some members of the famous Second Wisconsin Infantry. I've never seen the tin cup worn in that manner before. Also, note the dark blue pants instead of the sky blue ones worn by the rest of the brigade ( and the rest of the army pretty much ). IIRC, the Second were originally issued 1816 Harper's Ferry muskets converted to percussion, then they were given 1854 Austrian Lorentz muskets. Date of this photo is around 1861.
You are thinking 1861. The fellow on the right standing appears to be Afro-American or is it my eyes.
 
2nd Wisconsin color guard. Taken nearby?

View attachment 137726

Source.
These men were all killed at Antietam. I have never seen the photo from the OP until this year, but it clearly shows the Ragged-assed 2nd kitted out as members of Gibbons Black Hat Brigade. The leggings were issued in May 1862, and were gone by Fredericksburg in December. I think the photo is from the summer of 1862, not later than October. The Brigade was not on the Peninsula, but was in Fredericksburg, then to Cedar Mountain, arriving just in time to clean up from the battle. There were no men of color in the 2nd. You're probably seeing deep suntan and the darkening of the skin from pine smoke.
 
View attachment 126309
A photo of some members of the famous Second Wisconsin Infantry. I've never seen the tin cup worn in that manner before. Also, note the dark blue pants instead of the sky blue ones worn by the rest of the brigade ( and the rest of the army pretty much ). IIRC, the Second were originally issued 1816 Harper's Ferry muskets converted to percussion, then they were given 1854 Austrian Lorentz muskets. Date of this photo is around 1861.
Great photo! Thanks for posting!
Where did you find it?
 
nice photography. I always was impressed at the elaborate nature of the color guards on both sides. Even wearing white gaiters was something I always thought interesting but also practical.
The color guard is wearing the same uniform the rest of the Brigade wore, including the gaiters. They were famously unpopular with the troops. Hard to keep clean. They sag. They're surprisingly hot and heavy. And they make you look more like a soldier than they liked. They were only issued once, and never replaced or reissued, so that tells you they were a dead end. Gibbon threatened to turn artillery on the 19th Indiana if they fell in without gaiters, sparking the fondly remembered "gaiter mutiny." And, a couple wags from the 6th Wisconsin put two pairs on the general's horse. Yep, they hated gaiters.
 
2nd Wisconsin color guard. Taken nearby?

Sorry to have not seen this photo earlier - I've just come upon it looking into one of my Antietam guys, Corporal George W. Holloway.

Thanks Chubachus for posting it! It no longer seems to be available from the Wisconsin Historical Society.

Holloway is in that picture, 2nd from the right. He was killed in action at Antietam. That should help date the photo - it must have been taken before 17 September 1862.

To his right (our left) is Sgt James Gow, KIA at Gettysburg. I don't have ID for any of the others.

To add, here's a formal portrait of Holloway:


holloway_gw_lg.jpg
 
This group has been tentatively identified as members of Co. C of the 2nd Wisconsin, and the individual seated in the center is thought to be Corporal Spencer Train. All of the soldiers are wearing the black Hardee hats, frock coats, and leggings characteristic of the Iron Brigade, and it may be that the photograph was taken soon after the uniforms were issued to show the men fully equipped. If the corporal is indeed Train, the picture was taken between October 1861, when blue uniforms replaced the gray originally issued by the state of Wisconsin and August 1862, when Train was promoted to sergeant. Train died in 1863 from wounds received at Gettysburg.
 
This group has been tentatively identified as members of Co. C of the 2nd Wisconsin, and the individual seated in the center is thought to be Corporal Spencer Train. All of the soldiers are wearing the black Hardee hats, frock coats, and leggings characteristic of the Iron Brigade, and it may be that the photograph was taken soon after the uniforms were issued to show the men fully equipped. If the corporal is indeed Train, the picture was taken between October 1861, when blue uniforms replaced the gray originally issued by the state of Wisconsin and August 1862, when Train was promoted to sergeant. Train died in 1863 from wounds received at Gettysburg.
I believe Iowa had grey uniforms as well initially?
 
View attachment 126309
A photo of some members of the famous Second Wisconsin Infantry. I've never seen the tin cup worn in that manner before. Also, note the dark blue pants instead of the sky blue ones worn by the rest of the brigade ( and the rest of the army pretty much ). IIRC, the Second were originally issued 1816 Harper's Ferry muskets converted to percussion, then they were given 1854 Austrian Lorentz muskets. Date of this photo is around 1861.
Spencer M ( I think his middle name was Marvin) Train was my 3rd great Uncle. The picture ( duerrotype?) was my grandmothers. I inherited it but gave it to my mother for safekeeping and encouraged her to donate it to and address ( U of wisconsin as I recall) for posterity. Unfortunately, I think she sent a photo copy and not original which she may have given to a relative. Unfortunately, grandma was never sure which one was him. I believe maybe the middle one front as he was made a sergeant at one point. Also resembles Uncle Howard some. He was wounded and died at Gettysburg and is buried with an Indiana group there. He was 2nd Wisconsin Co C. As a side note, sometime after a woman showed up at family's door in New York with a baby, said it was his. Family thought a scam but my grandmother always fretted maybe it was true. Also sadly, she once owned all his letters to his brother Will but burned them said they "bothered her." ( wince!)
 
Also. In the original, looking through a microscope lens one of the guys in the front is holding a hardtack. Believe it was the guy on left of pic. Spencer's parents were Quakers, Collins, Erie Co NY. When he signed up, he was farming in Muscoda, Wisc. I don't think he was there long and can find no record of him at all there nor is he anywhere in the 1860 censuses. He was my grandmother's grandmother's brother, Betsy Train Sweet Cattaraugus Co, NY south of Buffalo
 
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You are thinking 1861. The fellow on the right standing appears to be Afro-American or is it my eyes.
I know it´s been 5 years since you asked your question - that soldier has a heavy tan, and his face is darkened from pine wood smoke. Armies use up a tremendous amount of wood, and eventually burn unseasoned wood that smokes a lot.
 
Spencer M ( I think his middle name was Marvin) Train was my 3rd great Uncle. The picture ( duerrotype?) was my grandmothers. I inherited it but gave it to my mother for safekeeping and encouraged her to donate it to and address ( U of wisconsin as I recall) for posterity. Unfortunately, I think she sent a photo copy and not original which she may have given to a relative. Unfortunately, grandma was never sure which one was him. I believe maybe the middle one front as he was made a sergeant at one point. Also resembles Uncle Howard some. He was wounded and died at Gettysburg and is buried with an Indiana group there. He was 2nd Wisconsin Co C. As a side note, sometime after a woman showed up at family's door in New York with a baby, said it was his. Family thought a scam but my grandmother always fretted maybe it was true. Also sadly, she once owned all his letters to his brother Will but burned them said they "bothered her." ( wince!)
I think I was able to find the copy photograph at the Wisconsin Historical Society here (is Majorie Allesi familiar to you?): https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM41960

Also in case you were wondering, if you were able to find the original tintype, I think it could easily be worth at least $10,000 today. Might be worth insuring for whoever owns it at the moment.
 
I think I was able to find the copy photograph at the Wisconsin Historical Society here (is Majorie Allesi familiar to you?): https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM41960

Also in case you were wondering, if you were able to find the original tintype, I think it could easily be worth at least $10,000 today. Might be worth insuring for whoever owns it at the moment.
Marjorie was my mother, now deceased. It was in my possession for many years. I made a move and at that time felt it should be donated to a Wisconsin repository that could preserve it for history and posterity. I gave her the address to send and contact person I had talked to. I am not even going to go into what happened to it. I know where it actually went, have tried to get it back to no avail. I have had a concern it was or will try to be sold. So unhappy about it! If the original can be acquired, perhaps under a microscope if there are the red corp badges would help some to date it. I have researched him, his company, Grant County grays, company C 2nd Wisc his family for decades, was enthralled by my grandmother's oral history. There is an interesting series of letters from Calvin M Brooks Co C 2nd posted on www.secondwi.com which references a picture he sent his sister and not by name the 6 men in it, their status, references to one standing and pointing , so I think possibly at least one other ( Calvin) bought the same picture wherever it was taken to send to family( he only remains and is clearly depressed and discouraged) that part of the excerpt: "
"In Camp of the 2nd Wis. near Kelly's Ford, Va.

I hav got back to my Reg. once more after an absence of nearly six months.
I hav not heard from you in so long a time that I hav realy forgoten when it was. I hav ben on the mov so much that I supose your letters hav not reached me.
Warren has enlisted. I do not know what he could be thinking a bout but probaly he was in rather hard circumstances. I do not think he will stand it very long in the field. it has interfeard with my plans very much but I shal soon make new ones.
two of my comrads hav died. [The following description must refer to a photograph that he sent her of himself and his buddies] the one that is siting down with me and the corpral that is pointing off in the picture. one is badly wounded in hospital. one is discharged. one is a prisoner in Richmond and I alone am left in the Reg. [He is the only one of the buddies in the picture who is left in the unit.] yet we as a body hav ben more fortunate than the rest of the Reg. will evrage [average]. we hav not quite six months longer to stay in. [They all enlisted as a group.] ALSO. Phillander ( Philo) Wright; 2nd wisc colorguard at Gettysburg has written an account of being in a house or barn immediatelly after the opening battle and behind enemy lines describing SGT Train's serious wounds, etc. What really fries me is that in his records after he dies there in August the cost of a lost cartridge box durng battle is subtracted from his pay
 
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