Secession votes before and after Lincoln's call for 75,000 troops to invade the South

Battalion

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Its actually a concession to you, the correct historical term is Free Labor.
"Our position is unquestionable. We stand in defense of free soil and resist aggressive slavery, and we demand enactments for the protection of free soil against this aggression. We will not disturb that institution, but we will stand in defense of the freedom of our soil as right in principle and beneficial to free white labor in all parts of our common country." -Hannibal Hamlin
 

rpkennedy

Lt. Colonel
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hi again..
what side trip did I take (?) I believe the South was fighting to preserve it's state-level control over slavery.. I stated in my post that the South was fighting for the freedom of Whites from their perception of Federal tyranny, they weren't waging a war for the freedom of Blacks.
You're caught up in trying to prove your point & curry agreement, you didn't bother to read what my response was. My point is, that attitude (of the CSA) is squarely & fairly, in the context of America's traditional worldview.. Manifest Destiny, wars w/Indians, the American Revolution, etc. White Americans, like every ethnic group on Earth, puts their self-interests above others.. so what (?) peace.

They didn't want state control of slavery; they wanted federal guarantee and protection of slavery in every state of the Union, even when the citizens of that state did not want slavery.

R
 

jgoodguy

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"Our position is unquestionable. We stand in defense of free soil and resist aggressive slavery, and we demand enactments for the protection of free soil against this aggression. We will not disturb that institution, but we will stand in defense of the freedom of our soil as right in principle and beneficial to free white labor in all parts of our common country." -Hannibal Hamlin

Good quote.
 

Potomac Pride

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Location
Georgia
This guy? Really? :smile:

Still doesn't change the fact that slavery was the issue for the Upper South as well as the Lower South.

I know that there are those who like to think that there was a difference, but the reading of the secession conventions of the Upper South point right back to the issue of slavery, no matter how many stats and charts are used to fog up this inescapeable, historical truth.

Now, ready for the next quote, if you please.

Unionblue

Please click on the link below which deals with the secession of Virginia.

www.lva.virginia.gov/public/guides/Civil-War/Secession.htm
 

FrazierC

First Sergeant
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Is it not a fact that the CSA took 4 million human beings away from the possibility of freedom and if so, does not the CSA claim of freedom ring false is a question to ask anyone that makes any claim of freedom by the secessionists.

Are you making a special claim of freedom by the secessionists? Why do you feel it is hypocritical? In the 1860 CSA it has no relevance. Slaves were tools and had not sense or claim of freedom. In the Slave South ideology slaves enabled the freedom of white men from course labor and enabled them to peruse the finer things.
So all you have to do is say 'no'; Slaves were the tool by which White men obtained freedom. It was all about the freedom to enjoy the economic and sociological benefits of slavery.

No one starts a war they figure on losing.

I'm not sure if you understand that I was agreeing with you from the beginning. I was merely pointing out that Southerners thought that they were right. As you and me both said, no one starts a war when they think they are wrong. I was agreeing with you; just presenting how Southerners would try to counter your argument.
 

jgoodguy

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I'm not sure if you understand that I was agreeing with you from the beginning. I was merely pointing out that Southerners thought that they were right. As you and me both said, no one starts a war when they think they are wrong. I was agreeing with you; just presenting how Southerners would try to counter your argument.

I appreciate the clarification. My 1860s countrymen would likely exile or lynch me and not do much in the way of explanation.


The 2 volume Road to Secession covers the development of Southern Idology in depth.
A good lecture on the proslavery worldview.
 

FrazierC

First Sergeant
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
I appreciate the clarification. My 1860s countrymen would likely exile or lynch me and not do much in the way of explanation.


The 2 volume Road to Secession covers the development of Southern Idology in depth.
A good lecture on the proslavery worldview.
Thanks for understanding. The video looks good at first glance; I'll watch in when I have time; to busy right now.
 

ole

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Would like to see that and all such posted in the ACW University thread. I will find time a bit down the line to watch it, but tomorrow I will forget where to find it. I'm not saying not here, just that it should also be linked in that thread.
 

jgoodguy

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Would like to see that and all such posted in the ACW University thread. I will find time a bit down the line to watch it, but tomorrow I will forget where to find it. I'm not saying not here, just that it should also be linked in that thread.

Where is the ACW University thread?
 

unionblue

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Member of the Year
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Location
Ocala, FL (as of December, 2015).
You're the one who is always trumpeting "facts." Except you ignore them when it they don't fit your ideas...

Vote for Convention Delegates
December 1860-February 1861
.................Secession.....Union
Total..........288,742.....369,822
......................43.8%........56.2%

No, Battalion, I trumpet CONTEXT, ALL THE FACTS instead of a snip here and a twisted quote there.

Take, for instance, you above chart. You seem to be trying to ram a square peg into a round hole and then state it give the entire answer. It doesn't because you do not go into the WHY the vote went the way it did at that time or why it went the other way later. You give no context, no frame to hold the picture in.

Statistics, numbers, and charts in splendid isolation don't tell the whole story. How about some quotes from the Virginia secession convention? How about why, when, and where?

A chart here and a carefully selected partial quote there does not in any way tell the whole story.

Unionblue
 

unionblue

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jgoodguy

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Potomac Pride,

No problem. Just do me the favor of clicking on the following two links.

Virginia Secession Convention.
http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

The Logic of Secession, by Ed Ayers.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Virginia Secession Convention.
3000 pages.
Yankee mentioned 46 times.
Tariff mentioned 81 times.
Republican mentioned 241 times.
God mentioned 272 times.
Tax mentioned 557 times.
War mentioned 747 times.
Slave/slavery mention 1432 times
Union mentioned 1592 times.
 

Battalion

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Sincerely,
Unionblue
More facts....
.........................................................Free............Slave
Texas (76% for secession).............421,649.......182,566
Mississippi (58% for secession).....354,674.......436,631
 

trice

Colonel
Joined
May 2, 2006
More facts....
.........................................................Free............Slave
Texas (76% for secession).............421,649.......182,566
Mississippi (58% for secession).....354,674.......436,631

I am not sure why you are posting that. How many of the slaves actually voted? How many of the Free actually voted?

Tim
 

jgoodguy

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More facts....
.........................................................Free............Slave
Texas (76% for secession).............421,649.......182,566
Mississippi (58% for secession).....354,674.......436,631

Where are these figures coming from?
 
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