1. Welcome to the CivilWarTalk, a forum for questions and discussions about the American Civil War! Become a member today for full access to all of our resources, it's fast, simple, and absolutely free!
Dismiss Notice
Join and Become a Patron at CivilWarTalk!
Support this site with a monthly or yearly subscription! Active Patrons get to browse the site Ad free!
START BY JOINING NOW!

Secession Procedure

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by W. Richardson, May 17, 2017.

  1. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
    OPINION ON SECESSION TO THURLOW WEED
    SPRINGFIELD, ILLINOIS,
    DECEMBER 17, 1860

    "But my opinion is that no State can in any way lawfully get out of the Union without the consent of the others; and that it is the duty of the President and other government functionaries to run the machine as it is."
    Source: The Writings of Abraham Lincoln — Volume 5: 1858-1862 Kindle Locations 2335-2343

    I have not read of any procedure, but have not really pursued much research on it. Was there a procedure of some sort Lincoln based his opinion? Perhaps some of our esteemed members have some knowledge on the matter.

    Respectfully,
    William
    SAM_0021.JPG
     
    Cavalry Charger likes this.

  2. (Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
  3. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,144
    Location:
    Pelham, AL
    Constitutional amendment comes to mind. Simple Constitutional statute also. Lincoln was a lawyer so he would know the obvious ones.
     
  4. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina

    A Constitutional Amendment would be one way, and of course a statue, but at that time there was neither. In his opinion no state could leave without the consent of others. I think they had consent of others, at least each state that seceded had the consent of 10 others. Lincoln and many others had an opinion that secession was illegal, Davis and many others had an opinion it was not illegal.

    I think the war settled though.

    In 1860/1861 there was no procedure other than Lincoln's opinion which in my opinion the South met...............

    Respectfully,
    William
    Confederate Flag.gif
     
    58th Virginia likes this.
  5. brass napoleon

    brass napoleon Colonel Retired Moderator Member of the Year Honored Fallen Comrade

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    14,989
    Location:
    Ohio
    Indeed there was, as he stated in his inaugural address:

    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. I can not be ignorant of the fact that many worthy and patriotic citizens are desirous of having the National Constitution amended. While I make no recommendation of amendments, I fully recognize the rightful authority of the people over the whole subject, to be exercised in either of the modes prescribed in the instrument itself; and I should, under existing circumstances, favor rather than oppose a fair opportunity being afforded the people to act upon it. I will venture to add that to me the convention mode seems preferable, in that it allows amendments to originate with the people themselves, instead of only permitting them to take or reject propositions originated by others, not especially chosen for the purpose, and which might not be precisely such as they would wish to either accept or refuse...

    The Chief Magistrate derives all his authority from the people, and they have referred none upon him to fix terms for the separation of the States. The people themselves can do this if also they choose, but the Executive as such has nothing to do with it.
    "

    - Abraham Lincoln, March 4, 1861

    Source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/lincoln1.asp
     
    gem, OpnCoronet, theoldman and 6 others like this.
  6. O' Be Joyful

    O' Be Joyful First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,153

    I might be going out on a limb here brass, but I believe William considers Lincoln to be a wee bit biased.
     
    brass napoleon likes this.
  7. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,144
    Location:
    Pelham, AL
    I doubt that a States Rights advocate would agree that they had or needed consent of any State.
     
    Joshism and brass napoleon like this.
  8. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,144
    Location:
    Pelham, AL
    I consider William to be a wee bit biased an affliction I possess also.
     
    Cavalry Charger and O' Be Joyful like this.
  9. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,144
    Location:
    Pelham, AL
    Article V of the Constitution.
     
  10. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina

    lol..........Only a wee bit????.......I will say you are correct.


    Respectfully,
    William
    Screenshot (1).png
     
  11. O' Be Joyful

    O' Be Joyful First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,153
    On the serious side, Lincoln was certainly aware of Madison's thoughts and made a study of Jackson.
     
    CW Buff and jgoodguy like this.
  12. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina

    or their revolutionary right to dismember.

    Would separating as the South did not be dismembering? Didn't some of the people call secession revolution?

    The people themselves can do this.

    In 11 states they did...........lol

    Respectfully,
    William
    Confederate Flag.gif
     
    Cavalry Charger likes this.
  13. O' Be Joyful

    O' Be Joyful First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,153
    :smile:
     
    Cavalry Charger likes this.
  14. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina

    A procedure for making amendments...........


    Respectfully,
    William
    SAM_0011.JPG
     
    Cavalry Charger likes this.
  15. WJC

    WJC 1st Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,941
    Lincoln was saying that there is no "procedure".
    Since the Founders meant for ours to be a perpetual union, there is no way for an individual state or group of states to secede. Our Constitution does not provide the necessary mechanism.
    If there is sufficient desire to provide a mechanism for secession, amend the Constitution.
     
    CW Buff and Cavalry Charger like this.
  16. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    27,144
    Location:
    Pelham, AL
    However, not illegal is not the same as legal. Not illegal lacks the protections of legal or as I prefer Constitutional. Nonconsensual unprotected secession is dangerous and outside of law.
    The secessionist appealed to war, unnecessarily, and in doing so makes discussions of legal and legislative moot.
     
  17. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina

    Also add that I consider Lincoln a racist and a white supremacist, along with being biased........lol


    Respectfully,
    William
    Confederate Flag.gif
     
  18. O' Be Joyful

    O' Be Joyful First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,153
    Granted William, I am well aware of your feelings about Lincoln.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  19. W. Richardson

    W. Richardson Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,210
    Location:
    Mt. Gilead, North Carolina

    I didn't want you to at anytime be confused about it.......:wink:

    Respectfully,
    William
    Confederate Flag.gif
     
    Cavalry Charger and O' Be Joyful like this.
  20. NedBaldwin

    NedBaldwin Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    7,436
    Location:
    California
    Or they had an opinion that breaking the law was worth it
     
  21. John S. Carter

    John S. Carter Sergeant

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    778
    Did not the Confederate government use the opening of the Dcelaration of Independce to exlain their justification for their action?
     

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

Share This Page


(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)