1. Welcome to the CivilWarTalk, a forum for questions and discussions about the American Civil War! Become a member today for full access to all of our resources, it's fast, simple, and absolutely free!
Dismiss Notice
Join and Become a Patron at CivilWarTalk!
Support this site with a monthly or yearly subscription! Active Patrons get to browse the site Ad free!
START BY JOINING NOW!

Rose Farm Less than 30 Years After

Discussion in 'Battle of Gettysburg' started by Gettysburg Greg, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Gettysburg Greg

    Gettysburg Greg Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Decatur, Illinois
    Here is an interesting shot of the Rose farm as it looked ca. 1890. I happened to have a similar modern view I took from the Wheatfield Road on the bottom below. Obviously, the biggest change is the barn has been reduced to the stone foundation. The houses seen in the background were along the Emmitsburg Road at the time. Notice the tall skinny pine tree along Roses' lane at left center in both photos. I've previously wondered aloud if that could be a witness tree. A similar shaped tree can be seen in the background of one of Garnder's iconic Rose pasture series. Laying it out on a google map, it falls in line with this same tree in Rose lane. Just some of my idle speculation.
    from wf road combo.jpg
     

  2. (Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
  3. Tom Elmore

    Tom Elmore First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,530
    Wonderful photograph! Thanks for posting. I don't recall ever seeing it before, and now we know what the Rose barn looked like before it burned, plus an outbuilding between the barn and house. Could that be the Philip Snyder place in the center distance?
     
    22ndGa, Wallyfish and Gettysburg Greg like this.
  4. JOHN42768

    JOHN42768 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,065
    Location:
    Upstate N.Y.
    Great photos
     
    Gettysburg Greg likes this.
  5. Dusty

    Dusty Corporal

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Chambersburg Pennsylvania
    Thanks, I always enjoy seeing any "then and now" photos.
     
    Booklady and Gettysburg Greg like this.
  6. Kip124thNY

    Kip124thNY Corporal

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Messages:
    284
    Thanks for posting!
     
    Gettysburg Greg likes this.
  7. EJ Zander

    EJ Zander First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,139
    Location:
    Gettysburg, PA
    Checked the 1909 topo map and in addition to the Snyder place there were 4 buildings marked at the intersection of Emmitsburg and Confederate Ave. For reference I think the Bushman place can be seen just above the left edge of the roof line of the gable end of the Rose house in the original pic.
     
  8. infomanpa

    infomanpa Sergeant

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    764
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Good find. You are correct. In the present day picture, it is hidden by the trees.
     
    Gettysburg Greg likes this.
  9. infomanpa

    infomanpa Sergeant

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    764
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I would guess that they are not the same. I don't think that a pine tree could look essentially unchanged after 135 years.
     
  10. Gettysburg Greg

    Gettysburg Greg Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Decatur, Illinois
    Thanks for comment, @infomanpa . I have to disagree with you on this point. Notice how much taller the tree is now when compared to height of Rose house roof. If you stand next to it now, you would be surprised at how large it is. Also, the top notch is rather unique and seems to match up. The tree I mentioned seen in Gardner's Rose pasture photograph has this same characteristic. May not have changed your opinion, but that's how I see it. :D
     
    PeterT likes this.
  11. Tom Elmore

    Tom Elmore First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,530
    The Rose barn, as would be expected, sheltered wounded men of both armies on July 2. Here are two sources:

    Surgeon James Beverly Clifton of the 53rd Georgia in Semmes’ brigade reached the Rose barn at midnight on July 2/3 and found wounded men there, whom he sent to field hospitals further to the rear. [Presumably ambulances were brought up for this purpose.] (Confederate Military History, Extended Addition, vol. 5 (NC), pp. 435-436).

    Two wounded and captured Federal officers from the 86th New York, including Lt. Col. Higgins, were sent to a “stone barn” by Capt. William Simmons of the 3rd Battalion Georgia Sharpshooters of Woffords' brigade. [This was likely the Rose barn given its close proximity to Wofford's Brigade on the evening of July 2.]
    RoseBarn.JPG
     
  12. infomanpa

    infomanpa Sergeant

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    764
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I have to admit that I don't know much about the growth changes of pine trees as they age. And you seem to have more first hand knowledge about this particular tree. I hope that you are right. Hopefully, I would think that a tree expert would be able to determine the approximate age of that tree and confirm this for us.
     
  13. Gettysburg Greg

    Gettysburg Greg Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Decatur, Illinois
    Just my opinion based on the pics, fun to speculate. Thanks for your input.
     
    infomanpa likes this.
  14. Patrick H

    Patrick H Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    7,459
    The similarity of the tree shape in two images so many years apart is really quite remarkable.
     
    KansasFreestater likes this.
  15. MRB1863

    MRB1863 Captain Forum Host

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,538
    Location:
    Lemoyne, PA (35 miles N. of Gettysburg)
    What a beautiful (and NOW peaceful) setting!
     
  16. Tom Elmore

    Tom Elmore First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,530
    "Directly to our front, about three or four hundred yards, was Rose's house, which we could plainly see, as the smoke occasionally lifted, and whose bell, in the old-fashioned cupola, we heard ringing whenever a bullet happened to strike it."

    (History of the Twenty-Second Massachusetts Infantry, by John L. Parker, Robert G. Carter, and the Historical Committee; Boston: Published by the Regimental Association, Press of Rand Avery Company, 1887, p. 334)
     
    Wallyfish and Gettysburg Greg like this.
  17. Wallyfish

    Wallyfish Sergeant Trivia Game Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    829
    Location:
    Greensburg, Pa
    Good stuff! Here is a link to LOC photos of the Rose Barn. The barns roof was destroyed by weather unfortunately it was never rebuilt and thus today it lies in ruins.

    http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/pa1692/

    In Tom's last post, a Rose Farm Cupola is noted. I don't recall seeing a cupola before on any Rose Farm building. Does anyone know what building with cupola is being described in that 22nd Mass reference?
     
    Gettysburg Greg likes this.
  18. Tom Elmore

    Tom Elmore First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,530
    Another Rose barn story:

    Regarding Captain [Sergeant at Gettysburg?] James Milton Pipes, 140th Pennsylvania - "His pension application papers and the papers from his brother's application state that James and several others were captured that day [July 2] by the Confederates and held at the Rose farm until the following day when they were rescued as the Union forces overwhelmed their captors and they were released." Pipes was a Medal of Honor recipient. http://www.pipesfamily.com

    Comment: Confederate ambulances would typically have carried off only their own wounded, which occurred before daylight on July 3, according to Surgeon Clifton (see #10 above). Contrary to this account, I don't think Union forces reached the Rose barn until the morning of July 4, when they conducted a reconnaissance to that point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    22ndGa, Gettysburg Greg and Wallyfish like this.

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

Share This Page


(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)